February 28, 2005
Canadians not firmly opposed to BMD
Feb. 28 - Just when you think it's the last word on something ... according to
Canadians are open to missile plan from the
National Post, Canadians seem to "oppose it in practice, support it in principle."
A recent Compas poll indicates that:
The survey shows 54% oppose Canadian participation in the shield and 36% support it. But while opposing the shield itself, many respondents support the principles behind its creation.
For example, 56% said Canada should help protect North America against missiles, while 53% said it cannot be an independent country if it relies on the United States for protection.
Furthermore, 53% of those surveyed believe Canada needs to protect its cities because the country does have enemies and only 30% give credence to the argument that increased military spending will provoke others to attack Canada.
[...]
There is also a dwindling belief the United States would help defend Canada against an international attack, the poll suggests.
In April, 1998, 32% of respondents said they had "a lot of confidence" the Americans would protect Canada. By April, 2003, the percentage who gave the same answer fell to 19% and in the new poll, the number stands at 13%.
Only in Quebec is the opposition to missile defence unshakeable, according to the COMPAS poll. In that province, respondents reject the program by a ratio of three to one. Mr. Winn [COMPAS president Conrad Winn] suggested Quebec has a long history of opposing military programs, dating back to the Boer War.
It's hardly a secret that polls are notoriously susceptible to manipulation, but this does seem to indicate that Martin and Harper could have raised the question to the people of Canada - and Parliament - before rushing to end the, uh,
dithering.
(Link via Canada Free Press.)
Posted by: Debbye at
03:42 PM
| Comments (8)
| Add Comment
Post contains 302 words, total size 2 kb.
1
Those are interesting results. I was dismayed, however, to read this line at the bottom of the article:
"COMPAS surveyed 508 individuals across Canada on Feb. 25 and 26. The results are considered accurate within 4.5 percentage points, 19 times out of 20."
That survey group is shamefully small. That means the actual figure opposing the missile shield could be 59% or 49%. Newspapers are getting so sloppy (and cheap) with their surveys.
Posted by: Darren at February 28, 2005 05:15 PM (9aklK)
2
So I've been banned?
I can't post anything longer than a paragraph it seems, so I guess my time here is over.
I'm glad I can leave with a victory in my column...
Posted by: No one's Mother at February 28, 2005 06:09 PM (Ojo2r)
3
Awesome... It worked...
I'll make one last response to MikeM's trying to call me a holocaust denier.
No, as Noam Chomsky does, I defend the rights of holocaust deniers to say what they will. Nobody believes them and in showing their stupidity, they actually reinforce the more truthful argument.
That's Liberalism. It's right there in Mill, circa 19th century.
This is why I defend the right of you and Debbye to say your stupid stuff, because it really just makes the other side look more right.
Chow...
Posted by: No one's mother at February 28, 2005 06:11 PM (Ojo2r)
4
Friend, no one has been banned. The warning was over the choice of names, not content. I have changed the name to one more generic and less abusive, however. If you have trouble posting it probably was due to a word that was banned by the spam-busters, a bug that irritates all of us only slightly less than spam-bots.
You're right, Darren, to point to the small poll sample, but does it really matter? Poll questions are often designed and presented to get the desired results anyway which is even sadder commentary on those who place great store by polls (Nielsen ratings, anyone?)
"Statistical difference" alone should teach us to be wary of polls.
Posted by: Debbye at February 28, 2005 07:28 PM (y200q)
5
Oops, that should be "statistical significance."
Posted by: Debbye at February 28, 2005 07:30 PM (y200q)
6
Talking point of the day among the right-wingers seems to be this Compass poll. Which basically says that the majority of Canadians oppose BMD but support defending their country, and participating in the defense of North America.
Supports the government's decision on BMD, I'd say. Canadians want real measures, not half-baked boondoggles like BMD.
Posted by: Malika at March 01, 2005 12:28 PM (8gDR+)
7
Meh, the poll tells me little besides reinforcing the age-old truth that people are more likely to agree with abstract ("defend North America") than concrete ("support the NMD deployment") principles.
What I found fascinating was the result that the number of Canadians who had "a lot of confidence" the US would defend Canada dropped to 13%. Under precisely which circumstances is the USA supposed to be entertaining thoughts of *not* defending Canada? Excepting missile defense, of course, where we've just been told not to.
Posted by: SparcVark at March 01, 2005 06:36 PM (X7hb0)
8
Canadians seem to "oppose it in practice, support it in principle."
That quote reeks of the same B.S. that Sen. Kerry tried to feed us with "voted for it before he voted against it".
Posted by: Michael at March 07, 2005 07:49 PM (BQ8wu)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Canada's role in electronic warfare
Feb. 28 - Startling article by Judi McLeod and David Hawkins in
Canada Free Press about
Canada's hidden, media-ignored role in electronic warfare.
Weapons of electronic intelligence and electronic warfare are where the nation of Canada holds the cutting edge.
Through an intricate series of subsidiaries and sub-contractors, leading back to the blind trust running his Canadian Steamship Lines company, Prime Minister Paul Martin is still at the epicenter of that cutting edge.
In the development and design of Instrument Approach Procedures (IAP) for military aircraft, Canada maintains a first-place role.
IAPs are published instructions to pilots, specifying a series of aircraft maneuvers that must be executed for the aircraft to transition safety from an en route driving final approach, when flying by instruments.
Pretty routine stuff, until we get here:
In addition to CMC and BAE selling flight simulators in the global marketplace, Lansdowne's project managers also conduct something called "Lessons Learned" or what the Americans would call, "Red-Team Analysis" for NORAD's war games--including the simulations carried out on, and just prior to the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.
Irrefutable proof that NORAD was conducting "simulation experiments" at the same time as the attacks, exists.
It was alleged confusion from these war game simulations that gave the NORAD commanders the convenient (and at the time, credible) excuse to order all U.S. Air Force military bases to "stand down" when they were about to scramble jets to escort or shoot down the alleged hijacked aircraft that nearly one hour later, crashed into several buildings.
Explaining the 9/11 collapse of NORAD command, control, communications and intelligence (C31 war-room) systems, the 9/11 Commission report cited a failure of imagination where no one (in America, at least) conducted "Red Team"--analysis as seen through the eyes of the enemy on how to convert hijacked jets into fuel-laden, precision-guided, un-intercepted missiles. (See www.9/11 Commission Report).
It now appears that project managers for the then-Paul Martin-owned Lansdowne Blind Trust Company were conducting Red-Team Analysis, in support of Canada’s participation in NORAD’s 9/11-style war games–but they just didn’t happen to share their web-enabled war-room insights with Canada’s allies in America.
The 9/11 Commission claimed that prior to September 11, 2001 no one was looking for possible telltale indicators that may have aroused suspicion. Indicators, such as prospective Arab-speaking terrorist group members using the CSL blind trust concealed behind Lansdowne to buy advanced flight simulators from companies such as CAE in Montreal, or flight-training lessons from corporate giants, such as Bombardier, which operates the NATO flight-training schools in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan.
Read this through to the end, where the question is posed
Is CanadaÂ’s role in the ongoing attacks on the American-led "Coalition of the Willing", one of counter-counter terror?
Please note that I'm sharing this with you all as I re-read it. It seems incredible.
Posted by: Debbye at
03:16 PM
| Comments (15)
| Add Comment
Post contains 472 words, total size 3 kb.
1
Break this down to me. Not sure what to make of this.
Posted by: Dex at February 28, 2005 03:44 PM (kO17P)
2
Nor do I! Very, very strange.
Posted by: Debbye at February 28, 2005 04:06 PM (HNlk3)
3
I would need a lot more than what the author presents to believe that Canada deliberately played a part in preventing the hijacked planes from being shot down. First off, they could not have been shot down in pre-9/11 America. If US forces had been successful in preventing the attacks thusly, Bush would have been under impeachment within weeks for 'needlessly' sacrificing innocent lives. The terrorists were able to execute their plan because it had never been done before. Blackglasses in one of his previous avatars informed us that America's 'cowardly' passengers stood by on the doomed planes and did nothing. Of course it was not cowardice, as the unsuccessful attempt proved, but previous experience in dealing with hijackings that misled authorities into believing that no action was the safest action.
I think it is wise to not count on Canada in any issue relating to US security. Canada is counting on being widely seen as a zero and not worth attacking. It may work, it may not. What remains to be seen is how many Canadians will continue to sign on to an image that would have been embarrassing to previous generations. It is hard to believe now that Canada once fought along side Britain, Australia and the United States to defend and promote democracy. Now it chooses not only to avoid the conflict as much as possible but to also openly lampoon those efforts and the oppressed people who even now are awakening to the possibility of freedom in their time in the Middle East.
I once admired Canadians. I had a typical American view of them as a hardy lot, having created a nation in a harsh climate. And although they never made much of an effort towards freedom and independence for themselves, they always seemed willing to defend it for others. Very admirable in a way. But watching Canada's treatment of its Jewish population, the selling out to anti-Semitic thugs at Concordia and its incredibly hateful inclusion of Al-Jazeera in its heavily regulated broadcasting group has exhausted my efforts to 'understand' just what Canadians mean when they point to tolerance as one of their proudest achievements. It is just not justifiable. It is more like tolerance for intolerance and it lends itself to accusations of collaboration with the thugs who threaten secular governments, gay and womens rights and democracy.
Sorry for the rant.
Posted by: mikem at March 01, 2005 02:06 AM (EzNXf)
4
mikem's rant is simply amazing for its utter contempt for fairness and freedom.
He somehow equates the "tempest in a teapot" at Concordia University in Montreal with the deadly violence of the Middle East, rather than see it for what it is, a case of some students getting carried away with a cause.
And mikem should be far more careful in who he accuses of "anti-semitism". That facts are that Arabs are also a semitic people, like the Jews, and right now one of the most anti-Semitic persons on the planet is Emperor George Bush II, on whose orders, well over 98,000 "semites" have perished, mostly civilians, women and children.
Islamic terrorism is like a fire, if you remove fuel and oxygen, the fire will go out. In this fight against random terror directed at civilians, women and children, there is no option but to take out the fuel and oxygen from the terrorist movements around the world. There are many good places to start, beginning with a much upgraded finance system in the United States which would do well to emulate the Canadian example in the banking system.
Another is to tightly regulate "offshore" charities and "NGOs" that should be not only registered at the United Nations, but also "regulated" and "audited" at the UNHCR in Geneva.
Posted by: Joe Green at March 01, 2005 02:56 AM (5dXW9)
5
Hehe, I guess MikeM is back to his "Canadians hate jews because they question Israel" argument. There's a difference between anti-semetism and calling out the horrible practices of the Israeli government towards Palestine... Enough said.
My argument is and remains that the Middle East should be completely ignored... Sure they're backward, and the only people that matter are the ones with bombs who oppose the U.S. and Israel and will always overshadow those who want freedom and democracy (who may well be a majority)... If I were in charge, I would put a huge fence around the trouble spots... Let them stew in their backwardness... When they realize how much better off the rest of the world is, they'll eventually see that they should change their ways and we open a dialogue.
(As for the normal arguments. 1) NO ignoring them won't lead to us getting nuked... The only weapons they have are the ones we [including Russia and China too] have given them.
2) NO the Palestinians are not more evil than the Israelis... They are severely oppressed and overwhelmed in an imperial sense... And yes, 3 times more Palestinians have been killed than Israeli's... )
This is how the Cold War was won... The U.S. and NATO didn't challenge the Soviets militarily (although there were covert ops and proxy-wars, but not on a grand scale.)... The Russians changed over the course of generations who eventually realized the Marxist teachings were failing and their economic structure couldn't compete with the West forever.
(And no, Reagan didn't win the Cold War... Giving Reagan credit is like saying the guy who put the top stone on the pyramid built the whole thing... Reagan deserves credit for accepting Gorby's overtures though. Even if it did take Nancy's astrologer to give him the courage. hehe)
- The new reformed, non-offensive and trying not to get banned Mother Figure. (who isn't blackglasses or joe green or anybody else)
Posted by: The Mother Guy at March 01, 2005 03:18 AM (Ojo2r)
6
Oh Canada... Joey shows his flag with his racist attitude toward multiple actors in the Middle East.
"tempest in a teapot" Yeah, that's what the Democrats said about civil rights when they controlled the South in America. Next you'll be assuring me that "our Jews are very content". Sorry, that's not what we read down here and your preference for the All Jew Hating All the Time network belies any protest that you wish to make. Canada is selling her soul and hoping that her tolerance of anti-Semitism will buy her peace. Like I said, it may work. Many french bought a few extra loaves of bread by handing over their Jewish neighbors to their Nazi allies. (Until liberation, when the entire french population became members of the resistance) The french have learned to embrace their 'sophistication', maybe Canadians will too.
Posted by: mikem at March 01, 2005 05:13 AM (EzNXf)
7
Poor mikem, just cannot stand the thought that Israel would be held to the same international standards as everybody else. I guess he just cannot stand the idea that Israel would be accepted as a country like all the others.
The rant however is quite extra-ordinary because its not clear which "All Jew Hating All the Time network" he is talking about. Is it the CBC or the Global network that Zionist Izzie Asper built?
Or is there something inaccurate about referring to the late Mr. Asper as a Zionist because he in fact strongly supported the State of Israel.
I think that mikem has a permanent inferiority complex, perhaps from seeing too many war movies. Maybe its time for Mikey to join the modern age and cut the victim crap. There was a Holocaust, it killed millions, but mikem was not one of them.
And indeed as far as Holocausts go, the attrocities committed by the Nazi against the Jews were of the same order as the attrocities committed by Stalin against the Ukrainians in the 1930s with his Collectivization Program. Stalin of course did not do this by himself, he had lots of help, starting with one Mr. Golonovich, head of the NKVD.
What ever gave mikem the idea that semites like Saddam, Golonovich and Sharon are incapable of mass murder, crimes against humanity, and other attrocities too numerous to mention in this type of forum?
Posted by: Joe Green at March 01, 2005 10:51 AM (5dXW9)
8
"that Israel would be held to the same international standards as everybody else."
This is to laugh and you deliver the punchline like a natural. No surprise.
Posted by: mikem at March 01, 2005 12:14 PM (EzNXf)
9
Mikem: The Canada you referred to in your first post existed 50 or 40 or even perhaps 30 years ago but large scale immigration from non-traditional (i.e. European - no matter whether western, central or eastern) has changed the face of much of Canada. Post WW II immigrants from Europe fled the effects of fascism and communism and could appreciate the efforts of western democracies in freeing them. Latter day immigrants bring a different perspective which in some cases is a "chip on the shoulder" attitude against former colonial powers or against the United States. Since the Liberals have been in power most of the time post WW II, most immigrants have arrived under Liberal governments and have an affiliation for the party. The Liberal Party at the same time is shameless in sucking up to whatever ethnic group will help keep it in power. If the last comment seems over the top, remember the photograph of Paul Martin attending a Tamil fundraising in Toronto a few years ago where the banner of the Tamil Tigers was in open display. When questioned about this by opposition parties, the Liberals simply screamed "racism".
Re: The Mother Guy:
The Cold War wasn't won by the simple economic conversion of former communists to a market economy. It was won by the economic collapse of the Soviet Union when it became evident to everyone (at least in the Soviet block) that the system was rotten to the core and was unsustainable. Once it became evident the emporer wore no clothes, the entire system fell apart. Although I thought little of Reagan at the time, I now give him credit for keeping the pressure on the Soviet Union.
I also disagree with your assertion that NATO and the U.S. didn't challenge the Soviets militarily. I very much remember the protests and debate over the development and deployment of advanced weaponry like cruise missiles, intermediate range missiles, etc. I'm sure you will also remember the left wing's opposition to this deployment including protests and scenarios of all out nuclear war, nuclear winter, etc.
Posted by: John B at March 01, 2005 12:22 PM (ju7Wp)
10
Your first post is perhaps full of some of the most bizzare conjecture i have ever seen. Nothing like painting people with broad strokes, no?
It also smacks of the "we need the RIGHT KIND of immigrants" arguments that i would expect a National Front member to make, but I won't say that was your intent.
Besides, Canada and the US successfully assimilate most immigrants within 1-2 generations. It's simply wrong to say that such ideas would still remain while most are firmly part of the middle class.
RE: The Cold War
Most academics and historians (without a politcal axe to grind) would agree that the Soviets ended the Cold War on their own terms. Reagan did very little. In fact, some speculate that his bellicose rhetoric slowed reforms for a few years by giving creedence to the beliefs held by the hardliners in the Party.
Most people would agree that the spirit of reform began in the 1960s and 1970s under the rule Kruschev and Breznev(not even close to being spelled right). In the 1970s a Soviet "middle class" began to emerge in an environment that was
no where near as oppressive as the Stalinist era (but Czechs and Slovaks may disagree here). It was the Soviets who kept the pressure up, not Reagan.
In fact, Gorbachev made several good faith moves without Reagan pressuring him- not because he was intimidated by the US military and government(Soviet archives show they worried little about SDI and thought it an unworkable idea)but because he was moving with the spirit of political reforms that was already a part of Soviet society. I should also note that in all likelihood, the Soviets didn't really want an end to communism, but wanted to develop a reformed and "friendly" Soviet Union.
Reagan had nothing really to do with the collapse, and put little pressure on the USSR, save for funding CIA operations in Afghanistan.
As for the NATO argument, you have made several bizzare points re: nuclear war. You seem to be impliying that people who disliked the Euromissiles and feared nuclear annihilation were, as a unifed whole, ardent supporters of the USSR and anti-American, Anti-NATO is quite frankly baffling and sounds like something from a John Birch Society pamphlet. It also sounds like the "you don't support the Iraq war, you hate a)Our Troops b)Freedom or c) Support Saddam Hussein" argument. I'm sure you will be in agreement with me when i say that such a point of view is ridiculious.
Also, by saying "all out nuclear war" is a scenario, I am assuming you are talking about was the Reganite belief that the US could expect to fight and win a nuclear war.
In all seriousness, I highly doubt ANYONE would win a full scale nuclear exchange, regradless of what Kenneth Waltz has said in the past. Once the missiles fly, what's to stop you from going all out?
Posted by: Blackglasses at March 01, 2005 04:17 PM (Ojo2r)
11
Typical. Dismissing the CW regarding Reagan's role in the fall of the Soviet empire (even blaming Reagan for its persistence) with an unsupported and baffling "most studies and historians"...
Well, I guess that leaves the subject moot now.
Joey/BG has spoken.
Posted by: mikem at March 01, 2005 04:50 PM (EzNXf)
12
Blackglasses:
I assume you are responding to my post above. One of the points I made suggested the policy of the left (as demonstrated by the Liberal party) is to shout "racist" whenever someone points out their pandering to various ethnic groups. Please note that I am not suggesting that recent immigrant groups should be excluded from the political process but, as shown by my Tamil fundraising example, the Liberals go far beyond this.
Your post states "It also smacks of the "we need the RIGHT KIND of immigrants" arguments that i would expect a National Front member to make" just proves my point. When the LLL's disagree - throw a racism charge at their opponents.
Most immigrants are assimilated within a couple of generations but it will be interesting to see how Canada's multiculturalist approach pans out. Most of the immigrants I referred to have arrived since the 1970's and whose children are now entering adulthood.
The Soviets ended the Cold War on their own terms? Some terms. Let's see - the disolution of the Soviet empire, life expectancy plumetting, the armed forces crumbling (leaving rotting nuclear submarines in the Arctic), the Baltic states leaving - as did Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Georgia, Kazakhstan, etc. I expect you will next tell us the Austro-Hungarian Empire ended the WW I on its own terms too.
Posted by: John B at March 01, 2005 06:42 PM (ju7Wp)
13
If you were to look on a National Front Site (A Contiential European on, not an English one- those guys are skinhead nuts) you will see that what you said is similar to their own beliefs. You should not be offended if a party hold similar opinions as you. It's just the National Front.
As for multiculuralism, Canada talks big, but it still assimilates towards English, French and the idea of Middle Class values. They throw token funds to groups through Heritage Canada, but to say that we are truly "multicultural" is a misnomer.
As for "pandering" to ethnic groups, do not both the Republicans and Democrats make speeches to "ethnic" agencies? Why did Bush and Kerry spend so much time talking to Cuban expatriates in Flordia. about the evils of Castro. Would that not be considered a form of "pandering"?
Also, saying the Canadian Liberal Party is "The Left" is very very very funny. Do you even know what that term means?
I stand by my Cold War assertions. The Soviet Union let itself dissolve on its own terms. It did not send tanks to crush the sepatrist States (like they did in 1956). The country just ceased to exist. Also, i thought it ended between 1989-1991. Doesn't that mean George I ended it, not Reagan?
Reagan did very little. In 2 generations when most of the partisian hacks that drive political discourse now are dead or retired, my opinion will not seem as "controversial" to you.
Posted by: Blackglasses at March 01, 2005 07:21 PM (Ojo2r)
14
Hhaha, Mikem says "all historians" are wrong, but once again ignores the details at hand.
Brilliant argument Mr. MikeM Hannity/Coulter/Limbaugh
Posted by: MOM at March 01, 2005 07:29 PM (Ojo2r)
15
Oh, so now you've gone from citing "most historians" to "all historians"? You have a limitless supply of 'supporting' info these days.
Posted by: mikem at March 02, 2005 12:02 AM (EzNXf)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Mark Steyn
Feb. 28 - Mark Steyn looks at the President's recent European trip and the
Aftermath balance sheet.
Mark re-states something about life in Europe that we in North America find incomprehensible, i.e., the failure of European countries to bring Muslim immigrants into the mainstream and, although he doesn't state it, provide them with economic freedom, i.e., employment:
Even more remarkably, aside from sticking to his guns in the wider world, Mr. Bush found time to cast his eye upon Europe's internal affairs. He told his Brussels audience, in his tour's first speech, "We must reject anti-Semitism in all forms and we must condemn violence such as that seen in the Netherlands."
The Euro-bigwigs shuffled their feet and stared coldly into their mistresses' decolletage. They knew Mr. Bush wasn't talking about anti-Semitism in Nebraska, but about France, where for three years there has been a sustained campaign of synagogue burning and cemetery desecration, and Germany, where the Berlin police advise Jewish residents not to go out in public wearing any identifying marks of their faith. The "violence in the Netherlands" is a reference to Theo van Gogh, murdered by a Dutch Islamist for making a film critical of the Muslim treatment of women. Van Gogh's professional colleagues reacted to this assault on freedom of speech by canceling his movie from the Rotterdam Film Festival and scheduling some Islamist propaganda instead.
The president, in other words, understands that for Europe, unlike America, the war on terror is an internal affair, a matter of defusing large unassimilated radicalized Muslim immigrant populations before they provoke the inevitable resurgence of opportunist political movements feeding off old hatreds. Difficult trick to pull off, especially on the Continent where the ruling elite feels it's in the people's best interest not to pay any attention to them.
People tend to migrate in order to build a better lives for themselves and more emphastically for their children, and maybe we don't pay quite enough attention to something which marks a major difference between North America and much of Europe, namely our willingness to welcome those of other cultures and encourage their participation in the workforce in accordance with their ambitions and skills.
Posted by: Debbye at
02:21 PM
| No Comments
| Add Comment
Post contains 365 words, total size 3 kb.
Lebanon's road to sovereignty
Feb. 28 - On Monday, 10,000 Lebanese defied a ban on demonstrations to press their demands for Syria's withdrawal (
10,000 in Beirut Join Protest Against Syria) as the Lebanese parliament opened in its first session since former PM Rafik Hariri's assassination of Feb. 14. [
13:00 - This just in:
Lebanese government resigns! Also, the crowd size is now estimated at 25,000.]
Syrian president Assad denies any involvement in the bombing which killed Hariri and told an Italian newspaper that to do so would have been an act of "political suicide." That may seem self-evident given ensuing events, but was it so February 14? Of course not.
CNN estimated there were 50,000 protesters in Martyr's Square and elaborates on the ban:
An estimated 50,000 people gathered Monday in Beirut's Martyr Square despite an order a day earlier by Lebanon's Interior Ministry for military forces to "use all necessary means" to make sure the demonstrations did not take place.
I think Damascus has learned the meaning of the phrase
The whole world is watching.
What I find most hopeful is that past differences between Lebanese factions seem to have been overridden by the desire to take back control over their own country (see this article on the tent city.) One of the arguments against any form of consensual government functioning in the Mid-east has been conflict - often armed - between religious, tribal and ethic groups which had been arbitrarily lumped together to form a "country" although there were few ties other than geography which bound the inhabitants into a cohesive unit.
The Iraqi people have shown that they can find common ground which can benefit all the Iraqi people and, perhaps more significantly, reach compromises. Although this unity is still in its infancy, within that transcendence of narrow self-interests lies the seeds of the future for countries of the Mid-east.
The question of Syrian involvement in Hariri's assassination is almost moot. Although it serves as a rallying cry for those tired of Syrian occupation and domination of Lebanon, the long supressed aspirations of the Lebanese for national sovereignty lie at the heart of the crisis in Lebanon and defiance of the ban against demonstrations spring from a recognition of the rights of free men and women.
There's been much discussion about Thomas L. Friedman's column in the NY Times yesterday, The Tipping Points (see extended entry for item) in which he discusses three tipping points in the Mid-east: Iraqi elections, the Lebanese defiance of Syria, and Israel's withdrawal from Gaza, but he doesn't tie the events together satisfactorily.
The impetus for change - and that's at heart what the tipping points represent - stem from U.S. response to the events of Sept. 11. Those who observed that the tensions in the Mid-east were reaching critical mass were shocked into recognition that these conflicts had ceased to be spectator sport and had landed in our front yards and that we had to do something, not just anything, and it had to be something that could provide hope to counterpose against the despair of death cultism.
We were paying attention to root causes, but we chose to go the hard course and press to change the biggest root cause from which the others stemmed.
Fact: No democracy has ever gone to war against another democracy.
Fact: One of the characteristics that has propelled homo sapiens forward is our ability to look at what others have done and to adapt it to fit ourselves.
Conclusion: If one people in one country in the Mid-east (besides Israel) can form a government based on and adherent to the recognition of human rights and consensual rule, others will believe that they too can do so and strive towards that goal.
I supported the Iraq war not due to any fears about the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction but because it seemed fertile ground for planting the seeds of democracy and, as we had to start somewhere, it seemed natural to pick up where we had (regrettably) left off in Gulf War I.
The Rose Revolution, the Orange Revolution and the courageous voter turn-out by the Iraqi people on January 30 are, I think, part of an ongoing revolution which is peaceful by nature but determined in intent (as indicated by the steadfastness of the Lebanese) and the only question now is in the specifics: where the impact of these marches to freedom will next be made manifest.
The United States and the Coalition of the Willing can take credit for planting the seeds, but it is those who strive for freedom who deserve credit for taking these bold steps toward a new future. I don't know how it will all end, but I have to believe that we have averted a war of civilizations that would have seen the destruction of one and the diminishment of the other.
more...
Posted by: Debbye at
11:34 AM
| Comments (11)
| Add Comment
Post contains 1597 words, total size 10 kb.
1
Friedman used to push a modifed (simplifed) version of the "democracies don't fight" theory called "Golden Arches Theory", in which he used McDonalds as a litmus test for democratic and economic stability. According to him, since you don't open up McDonalds in violent dicatorships, the countries are usually very stable and not very violent.
Of course, the month that book was published NATO and the US began bombing Pristina in the former Yugoslavia, with its 3 McDonalds.
One should never put too much faith in pithy comments and axioms that try to simplify the world and international politics. Please examine a book entitled "The Grand Illusion" by Norman Angyll(sp) in which he predicted war would be so expensive and economically devastating to global trade and the interconnected global economy, it could never be fought again.
It was published in 1911.
In fact, I believe Brazil and Argentina(or Peru- i can't recall) have fought border skirmishes since the 1980s- both countires were democracies as well. The Falklands may also be an example, (but i think Argentina was still having "issues" in 1982). Never try to overly simplify things. You will be in for a world of hurt and disillusion if you do.
Democracy is a good thing. But it should emerge organically and naturally within the country over time. Other countires are more than welcome to assist, but should try to consider the social and political context that they are working in.
A rapid change towards the total democratization of a society may not be a prudent move, and may risk causing great upheavals and risks leading some countires into ruin. Look at Russia today as an example of this.
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 28, 2005 05:02 PM (NjfE5)
2
Your concerns about the eventual outcome aren't that far from my own, Blackglasses. The French Revolution of 1789 is one such that went horribly awry and there have been many failed revolutions since then.
But next to Russia and Yugoslavia we can place Poland, Ukraine, Georgia, Slovackia, the Czech Republic and others. One could argue that the USA forced the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact too, but it was the populations of those countries that took the steps to re-shape their nations after the Berlin Wall fell.
The people of Lebanon have made a choice. We can hope that Lebanon will be able to make the transition peacefully and maybe agree to agree on that?
Posted by: Debbye at February 28, 2005 07:47 PM (y200q)
3
I would agree, but only tentatively. Only because I believe that if you insist on democratization YOU MUST follow up with all of the benefits that it entails. Let's look at some of the post- communist states as examples of this.
It was the influence of the EU that led to the democratization of the Poles, Czechs, Slovaks and 5 other countries they brought in with the latest round of Enlargment(not bothering to list them all).
In truth, many of those states only bothered with democracy and economic reforms not because they thought it was the right thing to do, but because they wanted all the goodies (free movement of people, chance to join the Euro Zone, structual adjustments and programs like the CAP) that come with EU membership. For example, Slovakia turned totally autocratic after the end of communism and was blackballed in Europe for years until the elites in the opposition realized that their president was ruining their chances for CAP funds and the benefits of a common market, and took steps to reform (as well as removing him from power)
The EU followed up, and those countries are slowly making their way to democratic regimes (but are still young and prone to bursts of childish ideologies such as nationalism)
Contrast this with several of the so-called "Stan" countries that were the former Soviet republics. In the early 1990s, Turkmenistan seemingly jumped to democracy overnight- free elections, free press, etc. But no one followed up on it. The EU wasn't intrested in a landlocked republic surrounded by autocrats and failing states, and the US and other western nations didn't really care about that part of the world (at that point). Since then Turkmenstan has reverted to a violent clan-based autocracy(some would say dictatorship) with China and Russia exterting a troubling degree of influence and a yearly rebellion by Islamic extremists (it's too cold to fight in the winter- they only fight in the summer).
As long as there is something tangible for people to grasp with democracy- some important incentive to remain democratic and keep reforming- besides pie in the sky ideals that President Bush puts such faith in, democracy will not hold.
Posted by: Blackglasses at March 01, 2005 12:11 AM (Ojo2r)
4
"democracy will not hold..."
Or perhaps that is just wishful thinking from Canadians like you.
"...if you insist on democratization YOU MUST follow up with all of the benefits that it entails."
Bull. If true, then democracy can never be attempted. It is pitiful to watch people like you place your sneering stamp of disapproval on events that should bring tears to your eyes. For decades and especially immediately following 9/11 Canadians and others told Americans that we had it coming to us for promoting stability for the sake of Western oil security and giving short shrift to the democratic aspirations of Middle Easterners. Now that Bush, the US and her allies have taken a pro-active roll in promoting democracy with Afghanistan and Iraq 'infestations', Canadians and French have suddenly decided that freedom and democracy are too complex for some people to absorb.
Anytime the people vote there is always a question of just what they will vote for. So far it looks like the people are voting for secular rather than Islamic governments. Your chicken little routine merely adds to the growing list of hypocritical contortions Canadians are seen as performing in order to make their do nothing anti-democratic stance seem palatable, or at least forgivable. All the 'nuance' in the world will not help soothe the Canadian conscience. You need to live up to Canadian ideals and stop this jealous hissyfit that causes you to hate anything that Americans can take credit for.
Whew, that felt better.
Posted by: mikem at March 01, 2005 05:22 PM (EzNXf)
5
No wonder Americans shoot up high schools and fast-food restaurants. If they don't get the opportunity to "pop" like MikeM just did, who knows what, with guns, they'll do.
Posted by: Malika at March 01, 2005 05:47 PM (H4OH3)
6
Oh good, an anecdotalist. No wonder Canadians molest their children, abuse their spouses and murder their homeless. If they didn't have the weak to intimidate they couldn't intimidate at all.
Posted by: mikem at March 01, 2005 06:37 PM (EzNXf)
Posted by: Blackglasses at March 01, 2005 07:23 PM (Ojo2r)
8
Oh good, an anecdotalist. No wonder Canadians molest their children, abuse their spouses and murder their homeless. If they didn't have the weak to intimidate they couldn't intimidate at all.
Oh, that is so stupid. Look, Anger-Management-Problem-O'the Week: why don't you take a bit of a break, go back on the Dyprexia (like your family has been begging you to) and stop polluting the cybersphere with your dyspeptic ranting.
Posted by: Malika at March 01, 2005 09:00 PM (H4OH3)
9
Stupid when I do it, but not when you do it, eh? I parroted you, in case that went over the top for you.
Am I really hearing a mental illness alert from someone who proudly announces that they are "keeping a close eye on French-hating Americans living in Canada and working tirelessly to undermine our country...”?
Do you have any sense of irony at all?
Posted by: mikem at March 02, 2005 12:17 AM (EzNXf)
10
Please get new material.
Posted by: Blackglasses at March 02, 2005 02:00 AM (Ojo2r)
11
I need you to stop supplying so much easily lampoooned material. Believe me, I feel lazy at times simply quoting the inane comments of Canadians. An intelligent challenge would be a welcome diversion from the "last word, I win" level of debate that you still employ from grade school.
Posted by: mikem at March 08, 2005 07:36 PM (EzNXf)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Saddam's brother arrested in Syria
Feb. 28 - This could be titled "Look what we found" as Syria tries to placate Iraq and the USA with the capture of Sabawi Ibrahim al-Hassan (
Syria captures Saddam's brother) by suddenly locating someone on the "Wanted" list:
Iraqi officials yesterday said Syria had captured and handed over Saddam Hussein's half brother, a most-wanted leader in the Sunni-based insurgency.
The action was described by Iraqi authorities as a goodwill gesture by Damascus, but it followed months of Syrian denials that fugitives from the ousted Saddam regime were hiding on their territory.
Sabawi Ibrahim al-Hassan, who shared a mother with Saddam, was nabbed with 29 other fugitive members of the former dictator's Ba'ath Party in Hasakah in northeastern Syria, 30 miles from the Iraqi border, said officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity. The U.S. military in Iraq had no immediate comment.
What could the U.S. military possibly say?
You mean he was in Syria all this time? Who knew?
Posted by: Debbye at
10:47 AM
| No Comments
| Add Comment
Post contains 169 words, total size 1 kb.
Mass murder in Iraq
Feb. 28 - True, somewhat grim title but I feel an anger at the pit of my stomach that has no words over this latest outrage (
Car Bomb Kills at Least 115 in Iraq.)
I realize that the death cultists have little recourse but to murder and spread mayhem; after all, what else to they have to offer? On my better days I try to pity them for their failure to embrace the gift of life, but most days I just hate them.
FoxNews reports (at least on the televised coverage) that those present worked together to load the wounded onto ambulances and gather body parts of the dead. It's some comfort to see that solidarity and humanity in the middle of the wreckage, and not a day goes by that I don't see new reasons to respect the courage of those trying to build a new nation.
Courage. What a small, pitiful word for such a breathtaking concept.
Posted by: Debbye at
09:34 AM
| Comments (1)
| Add Comment
Post contains 167 words, total size 1 kb.
1
I'm not too sure what a death cultist is. Suicide bomber? Please explain here.
Also, you do realize that the insurgency also consists of Shiites involved in interfactional squabbles in addition to former Baathists and international figures(who are in the minority here). It is possible that this attack is simply one of those factions fighting amongst each other. And yes, they use suicide bombings against each other as well.
As for Iraqis having basic humanity and helping to pick up bodies and wounded...well, that would happen anywhere. It's human nature to help those in need. You don't need to have elections to do that. People usually are good the whole world over, regardless of where they are from.
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 28, 2005 04:49 PM (NjfE5)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
February 27, 2005
The depressing reality of rejecting Missile Defense
Feb. 27 - I don't often get depressed after reading an Andrew Coyne post, but when he's right, he's right, and his conclusions about
The missile defence decision are bang on:
... the only objection most of the critics have is that it involves a) the Americans, and b) military hardware. And because a good number of these people are to be found on the Liberal backbench, the Prime Minister feels obliged to kowtow to them. So we will make critical decisions on foreign and defence policy based on purely internal politics -- internal, not as in Canada, but as in the Liberal Party.
To paraphrase V-P Cheney, if Martin can't stand up to the NDP and left-wing of the Liberal Party, how is he going to stand up to rogue regimes?
I had followed Bob's link to a Toronto Star editorial which criticized Martin's decision not to participate in the missile defense shield program and noted but couldn't comment on this assertion until the inner ranting ceased:
Yet, if Martin failed a leadership test, Bush also failed to make a decisive case for joining. And Harper offered Bush no comfort. This was a systems failure from the get-go. The Three Amigos never got their act together.
That's right, they are criticizing Pres. Bush for failing to play a leadership role for Canadians on this issue. Canadians need
American leadership, not
Canadian leadership, to explain a program meant to protect Canada.
So much for the much-ballyhooed Canadian sovereignty. By blaming Bush, the Toronto Star editorial concedes that Canada's leaders don't have the capability (or balls) to provide leadership on issues that concern the defense of Canada.
The Star editorial ends with misplaced optimism
If that [increased military spending in the recent budget] doesn't buy us credibility with allies, nothing will.
Stay with the "nothing" part and you'll have it right. It speaks volumes that Canada's leading newspaper thinks that credibility, not to mention respect, can be
bought rather than
earned.
Posted by: Debbye at
01:22 PM
| Comments (19)
| Add Comment
Post contains 331 words, total size 3 kb.
1
I think that Mr. Martin ended up making a tough decision. Making tough decisions is what leadership is all about in the final analysis.
Afterall, "joining" the US was not going to cost us anything, but it would have lent credability to a military program that lacks credability. The facts are that scientists and engineers from Alaska to Massachusetts all agree that designing and building "anti-missile missiles" is not possible, and it has been made even more difficult a proposition by the recent Russian announcement to build a hypersonic cruise missile to deliver nuclear, chemical and biological warheads. Such unmanned vehicles can cruise in the upper layers of the atmosphere at Mach 6 or better, and are capable of "high dynamics" manoevers that exceed 30 "g" along the entire path, making the problem of attacking and destroying them, virtually impossible with conventional explosives. You can think of them as hypersonic bombers that are continually doing aerobatic maneovers on the way to the target and what it takes to "intercept" and destroy such a bomber. And do not forget that these days stealth radar technologies allow such vehicles to have a minimum radar cross section as well. And since such vehicles travel just inside the atmospheric envelope, attacking them from spaceborn platforms is just as problematic, even with lasers and xray lasers.
Canada did a great deal of research on such weapons back in the 1960s and finally concluded in 1970 that such systems could only be effective with nuclear warheads large enough to destroy the incoming missiles. That of course defeats the entire purpose of a defensive missile shield. Nothing has changed in these earlier Canadian studies and nothing has changed in the conclusion.
I thought that Mr. Martin would have gone along with the Bush Administration in this expensive boondoggle on the US taxpayer, but to his credit he recognized bullshit when he saw it and was not afraid to say so publicly.
And I also think that Mr. Harper must be giving off a huge sigh of relief because the Conservatives know full well that this was simply a money grab by the Carlyle Group and its companies, since no credible scientist or engineer is prepared to recommend this sort of development. In case you have missed it, the Carlyle Group is now in control of the American nuclear weapons programs, and safely out of sight of Congressional oversight since its a private company. Oh yes, that is the same Carlyle Group that counts among its members the Bush Family and the Bin Laudin Family.
Canada concluded, back in 1970, and its valid still today, that the only workable method for nuclear arms control is "disarmament". By violating international missile treaties, the US is harming, not helping its own defence posture.
Congratulations to Mr. Martin for his willingness to call a spade a shovel. By steering clear of this corrupt US program, Mr. Martin has spared Canadians the embarassment that is surely coming when Congress begins to find out how it spent so much money for something that could not work in principle.
Posted by: Joe Green at February 27, 2005 04:31 PM (5dXW9)
2
Yikes!
Another voice of opposition to the Debbye website!
Good going mr. Green... I didn't know the Carylye group was in charge of the program. (Not that I'm surprised)
Oh well, the nutjobs can always defend themselvs simply by saying "that's irrelevant" or the good ol' "I'm not answering that question." Thank God (LITERALLY) that they have 40-45% of the populatin that believes everything they say and another 5-10% "undecided" voters to scare with 9/11 paranoia.
YIKES!
Another Home Run for Rafer Alston, the best baseball player for the Toronto Maple Leafs!
Posted by: Rafer's Mom at February 27, 2005 05:34 PM (Ojo2r)
3
"Another voice of opposition to the Debbye website!"
This is the voice of free speech, Canadian style, celebrating opposition to a website. In America, we unsophisticated generally express opposition to viewpoints, not to websites. Canadians seem to have a more expansive view on the right to oppose free speech.
No, Joe, I'm not putting you in the same category. I hate to ask this, because I object to comments that constantly demand "proof" in the form of links to supporting material, but in your case you have revealed a lot of new (to me) information and I would appreciate it if you would provide a link to the material you are using. You are very specific, so undoubtedly you have read something somewhere about the Russian program.
"...could only be effective with nuclear warheads large enough to destroy the incoming missiles. That of course defeats the entire purpose of a defensive missile shield."
Oh it does? Would you not do a nuclear airburst at 60,000 feet to prevent an airburst at 10,000 feet or a ground level nuclear explosion at Toronto?
Much of your description seems counterintuitive. Any 'cruise missile' traveling at hypersonic speeds has to be very, very high to keep from burning up. At the same time, defense agencies don't need radar to track hypersonic craft because they would light up like a meteor from their heat signature.
Opposition because 'it can't work' doesn't ring true. The more plausible reading, and the common one in America, of Canada's opposition is that Canada hopes to benefit from America's shield, as it has in the past, except that now it hopes to benefit and at the same time separate itself from American, British and Australian policy worldwide. Hopefully the terrorists and the nations who support them will see Canada's support for their totalitarian regimes and Islamic fundamentalism as reason to grant a pass to Canada and the missles will pass by her door and strike her 'allies'.
Posted by: mikem at February 27, 2005 07:24 PM (EzNXf)
4
I knew very little about missile defence, so I did some research. I've posted links to what I read here:
http://www.darrenbarefoot.com/archives/002402.html
The missile defence system seemed like a waste of resources and a riskly political tactic, and what I read hasn't changed my mind. I'm keen, however, to read some thoughtful arguments in favour of missile defence. Can anybody recommend some? You don't have to make the argument yourself--just point to something compelling. Cheers.
Posted by: Darren at February 27, 2005 07:59 PM (9aklK)
5
Thanks. I'll take a look at it.
Posted by: mikem at February 27, 2005 08:01 PM (EzNXf)
6
Re: The Carlyle Group
Do you really think the Prime Minister made any decision based on the scare factor of the Carlyle Group? Wikipedia says his buddy Desmarais sits on Carlyle's advisory board.
Posted by: Sammie at February 27, 2005 08:19 PM (ZDCse)
7
Hey Debbie nice post, but how can the President even offer the Liberals a weapon system in the first place, hell they got problem with Walmart, puppets, and Macdonalds. Serious Debbie, look it they will not fund their armed forces but will throw away billions of the taxpayers dollars on the CBC. Did you see the Canadian elections 04? Hell the Liberals used American ships and troops as scare tactics in the vote. Surpised?
Posted by: Dex at February 27, 2005 10:11 PM (kO17P)
8
Debbye, Don't get depressed by the above comments. Keep up the good work I guess these Chomskyites must read your stuff so perhaps one day a little reality will seep into their heads! Who knows? All the best David.
Posted by: David at February 27, 2005 10:42 PM (cJ69F)
9
Do you people read anything besides online sources, the Post and the SUN media rags? With posts like these above, I'm actually kinda of amazed you can read in the first place*
I'm curious to know.
PS: Also, this is far off topic, so i apologize for the derailment, but what's with the assumption that everyone who disagrees with you is a liberal who loves Noam Chomsky? Let's look at Chomsky in depth here.
Chomsky is very insightful and intelligent, but it would be difficult to take all of his writings as holy writ. To do so would require the pigheaded and ignorant dogmatism that only party hacks and bloggers seem to possess(I include the left and right in this assessment-especially the right).
Even at those "hotbeds of liberalism" that many of you shake your fist at while trembling in fear, the dreaded CANADIAN University, Chomsky is not well liked in most university departments such as political science and history. I am not including his linguistic and media theories(especially his media theories. You people act out "Manufacturing Consent" everyday without realizing it. It's both horrifying and fascinating to watch).
His political commentary is meant to be populist and easily accessable, as well as a form of agitprop-he can be a tad extreme-not academic.
Suprisingly, this assessment applies to most blogs as well. Good for some quick slanted news and sensationalism, not really that good for an intelligent in-depth discussion.
I have never seen his work discussed by professor in a serious academic manner, or placed on a sylabus. (but i'm sure international development is a different kettle of fish)
He has very good points at times, some incredible insights and is perhaps one of the great living intellectuals of our era, but he is not totally respected by people who prefer an academic study of policy and politics.
Of course, many well educated people without dogmatic baggage can come to similar (but less extreme) insights as Chomsky on their own.
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 27, 2005 11:53 PM (Ojo2r)
10
Mikem? Rafer? Warren? And they say we're all the same person.
Calling someone opposition does not mean I hate free speech. Only an idiot would think that. What I mean is another voice challenging the American-cheerleading we find here.
Dex, you also are an idiot... The CBC is not a waste of money... It's our national news source... You're going to lecture us on nationalism?... The United States media can't go ten second without screaming FREEDOM! DEMOCRACY!... Wake up
David, you're calling me a Chomskyite?... Wow, that sort of labelling is exactly what I've been calling other people out on. Wake up and respond to the arguments I make instead of just screaming LIBERAL! EVIL! TRAITOR! like your brethren.
Blackglasses, it's impossible to prove Chomsky is a reasonable intellectual... None of these people have ever read anything by him besides the soundbites they find on blogs and other right wing news sites that take him out of context when he defends holocaust deniers, etc.
... There you go. 4 blowhards dismissed of in less than 3 minutes.
Posted by: Rafer/MikeM/Warren's Mom at February 28, 2005 12:02 AM (Ojo2r)
11
"The United States media can't go ten second without screaming FREEDOM! DEMOCRACY!..."
The horror, the horror.
"..that take him out of context when he defends holocaust deniers, etc."
Don't you hate when that happens? One day you're defending holocaust deniers and the next day the REAL Nazis are criticizing you as a JewHater. Out of context, oh please. From the mouth of babes.
Posted by: mikem at February 28, 2005 12:15 AM (EzNXf)
12
mikem asked for some backround information related to the current American Administration and its fascination with ballistic missile defence.
So I will begin by giving you a URL that is somewhat outside the box but accurate as far as I can tell from my other sources.
http://english.daralhayat.com/Spec/10-2004/Article-20041010-838064fa-c0a8-01ed-004f-35394dc965fe/story.html
The "whos who" of the Washington "neo-con" club are there as is their views, conflicts, and contradictions. I thought it was rather well researched.
Second, as to Carlyle itself check this site out.
http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20040918050139299
Finally, check out the following URL about American "dirty politics"
http://www.opensecrets.org/
One other detail that you will find very interesting is that NASA (actually a US military program inside NASA) recently air tested a very high speed unmanned vehicle at very high speeds that uses a ram jet engine. Such engines have no moving parts, and are capable of propelling hypersonic cruise missiles of the type that Mr. Putin announced for Russia recently.
These really are the next generation of ICBM because they are much harder to defend against and in any case they operate in a fashion that can use even smaller yield nuclear weapons. Thus the interest by the US in building nuclear weapons of 3 to 5 kilotons, or if you like, bombs equivalent to 6,000,000 to 10,000,000 lbs of high explosive. On the other end of the scale, the US Air Force last year tested a large bomb weighing something in the order of 40,000 lbs. These are "bunker buster" munitions and they can be made rather small because deliverable accuracy is high, typically within 2 to 5 meters with GPS guided munitions.
The point however, is that conventional warheads, or even dead weights like depleted uranium fragmentation shells, are "heavy" and are therefore very difficult to maneouver under conditions of "high dynamics". A 1000 lbs payload in conventional explosives weighs 30,000 lbs under conditions of 30 "g" turns. That takes a lot of rocket power and thrust to steer and guide.
It is obvious that if you cannot reduce the "closing error" to near zero for an "interceptor" that you then must use much larger explosives to destroy the target.
These studies were well done by Canadian Defence Research Board teams back in the 1960s at the height of the Cold War, and its conclusions are as valid today as it was when these studies were made.
The path to peace and security for Canada and the US does not lie in broken missile treaties, rather it lies in arms control treaties that are verifiable and under the supervision and control of the United Nations.
One last point. There are a rather significant group of Canadian Defence Staff Officers that opposed nuclear arms for Canada and who have well thought out positions as to how to best enhance our defence posture. All of these men understand the "snake oil" that is being peddled here by the Carlyle Group and its companies.
Posted by: Joe Green at February 28, 2005 04:01 AM (5dXW9)
13
Hey, the libs are right about missile defense and I have no problem with them dropping out,better for them to make a decision and move on. I just wish President Bush get the USA out of the UN becasue we can totally see our safety cannot be trusted to Nations that wish us harm. Concerts, candle buring is about healing but not in itself ensures peace like some would think but attraction of it makes libs feel good so be it.
Posted by: Dex at February 28, 2005 10:29 AM (kO17P)
14
"I just wish President Bush get the USA out of the UN becasue we can totally see our safety cannot be trusted to Nations that wish us harm"
Have you ever read a serious account of International Realtions and the UN or just the idiotic tripe that is passed around in poorly photocopied newsletters and right wing blogs?
I'm leaning towards the latter.
An well read individual would never say something so ill-informed. You statement indicates that you do not even have a basic understanding of international politics, save the George W. Bush's bad William Wallace impersonation school*.
* To wit: "FREEEEEEDOOOOOOMMMM!!!"
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 28, 2005 11:12 AM (CI79g)
15
Blackglass who ever you are congrads on your medal of being well read on so called international crap hell maybe they should give the Nobel.
Posted by: Dex at February 28, 2005 11:29 AM (kO17P)
16
Great discussion. My knowledge about missile defense goes back to the 60's when we called it AMB defense, but the same reservations as to the ability of such a system to function remain.
Military technology is fleeting at best but how it figures as a deterrent is, however intangible, also a factor that has to be considered.
Thanks for the links, Darren and Joe, and for the info on Demarais' links to Carlyle, Sammie.
One note:
I think I'm within my rights to insist that people not use a name like "Somebody's Mom" etc. Dragging in somebody's mother is maybe worthy of someone in 4th grade but degrades a discussion between adults into just plain abuse without any redeeming ideas or viewpoints.
I expect heat for myself, but please treat other commenters with a bit more respect.
Posted by: Debbye at February 28, 2005 02:42 PM (HNlk3)
17
Thank you, Debbye. And I think that giving these ignorants the status of 4th grade name-calling is maybe even too much credit. I think their maturity is well below that of a 10 year old.
Putting this behind now, I don't have much to add in the debate over Canada's refusal to join the States in the missile defence system, except I find that Paul Martin's decision on this matter is not surprising to say the least. With a little groundhog like Jack Layton chirping in his ears every day in Parliament, he had to do something to quiet him down.
Posted by: Rafer at February 28, 2005 03:18 PM (Ojo2r)
18
Thank you, Debbye. And I think that giving these ignorants the status of 4th grade name-calling is maybe even too much credit. I think their maturity is well below that of a 10 year old. Putting this behind now, I don't have much to add in the debate over Canada's refusal to join the States in the missile defence system, except I find that Paul Martin's decision on this matter is not surprising to say the least. With a little groundhog like Jack Layton chirping in his ears every day in Parliament...blah blah blahbbity blah...
..I can't hear you...
La la la...la la la...la la LAH
Look, sweetie, if you're going to criticise anyone for being childish, you might want to not call oppostition politicians groundhogs.
Just a suggestion.
Posted by: Malika at March 01, 2005 09:44 PM (H4OH3)
19
That admonition for 'childishness' was brought to you by Malika, of "fuck off", "motherfucker", "moronic, half-witted, rabid little vole", "douchebag" fame.
So pay it no mind.
Just a suggestion.
Posted by: mikem at March 02, 2005 01:37 AM (EzNXf)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
February 25, 2005
The best words on Jeff Gannon
Feb. 25 - There's been commentary aplenty over the hounding of Jeff Gannon, but the best (and funniest) response I've seen thus far is from John Hawkins, who
applies the Gannon Standard to a certain "real," "non-biased" journalist who is not a reporter - she's a columnist - but who is a regular at White House press conferences.
I won't tell you who that might be, but if you think "Queen of the Editorialized Question" you'll probably have it figured out.
By the way, second runner-up for best and funniest response is Ann Coulter, in Republicans, bloggers and gays, oh my!
Have a good weekend, everyone. As Dennis Miller used to say on SNL, I. Am. Out of Here.
Posted by: Debbye at
04:41 PM
| Comments (16)
| Add Comment
Post contains 131 words, total size 1 kb.
1
I've always been a huge fan of Dennis Miller. I love the ending quote, Debbye.
As for the content of your post, I'd only like to add this opine: how petty can the left wing get? Gannon has quickly become the Richard Jewel of the 21st century, the poor guy.
Posted by: Rafer at February 25, 2005 10:19 PM (Ojo2r)
2
You've completely missed the point Debbye.
1) The Maureen Dowd article was criticizing the Bush press room for keeping her out (despite being from the most respected news daily in the country), but they allow in a man from the Talon News (a right-wing front website and nothing more)... Her criticism had nothing to do with him being gay. (YOU and Ann Coulter are the ones being petty for implying it)
2) The criticism of Gannon for being gay is in no way homosexual. When the side that actually stands up for Gay rights points out that Gannon is gay, it is only to point out once again that the right-wing is being hypocritical. While it contains many who happen to be homosexual, they still say they don't like gays in order to keep the religious crowd on their side.
3) Oh, yeah, there is SOME relevance to the gay-angle... He isn't just gay, which is acceptable even to you apparently... HE WAS A MALE PROSTITUTE, which is considered bad whether your left-wing or right-wing remember.
Please read some alternative viewpoints next time and actually weigh them against each other. Simply parroting opinions from www.rightwingnews.com and Ann Coulter Op-Ed's will do nothing more than make you sound stupid and uneducated. (which I know is in fashion across the U.S.of A.)
Posted by: Rafer's Mom at February 26, 2005 09:13 PM (Ojo2r)
3
Upon re-reading, in 2), I should have said the gay-angle of the Gannon critique was in no Way HOMOPHOBIC, not 'homosexual' as I accidentally typed.
I felt I should point this out because the only response I would probably get otherwise would be a right-wing-nutjob simply telling me I'm wrong because I used the wrong term.'
Posted by: Rafer's MOM Again at February 26, 2005 09:15 PM (Ojo2r)
4
Life must be good if the most the left can dig up on the Bush White House is this silly bit of trivia.
1) Gannon had a day pass. Dowd could have gotten a day pass too (if you don't apply, you don't get one). What's the problem here? So Gannon was guilty of asking lame questions, but so does Helen Thomas. And you are saying people should get worked up about this? Whatever.
2) Uh...have you ever thought that maybe Republicans don't care about someone's sexual orientation as much as the Democrats think they do.
Interesting that right wing nutjob sites like the Daily Kos seemed to be the most interested in Gannon's sexual orientation.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/8/174746/7900 a
"While it contains many who happen to be homosexual, they still say they don't like gays in order to keep the religious crowd on their side."
Please enlighten me. Who are these "they" people? Or are you just making this stuff up? I've heard that Dick Cheney's daughter is gay. (Mr Kerry and Mr Edwards made a point of repeating it for some reason
. I don't think the Cheneys' don't love their daughter any less).
Interesting knots that the left ties themselves into. Gannon can't really be gay because he's a Republican? Condi Rice can't really be black since she's a Republican? The US political left is just waay too funny.
3) So are you suggesting that access to the White House should be based on an investigation of someone's sexual history? Are you scared that he was a prostitute (you must be is you had to write it ALL IN CAPS). Please clarify.
One last point. From your first post:
"Simply parroting opinions from www.rightwingnews.com and Ann Coulter Op-Ed's will do nothing more than make you sound stupid and uneducated. (which I know is in fashion across the U.S.of A.)"
From your second post:
"I felt I should point this out because the only response I would probably get otherwise would be a right-wing-nutjob simply telling me I'm wrong because I used the wrong term.'"
Let me get this straight...you call other people "stupid and uneducated" and then you stereotype anyone challenging you as a "right wing nutjob".
Now, that doesn't sound very intelligent. Is that all the rage from where you are or do you just enjoy living an irony free lifestyle?
Seriously, I have a (reasonably) open mind if someone makes a logically consistent argument. This doesn't seem to be it. Care to try again?
Debbye, interesting series of recent posts. You seem to attract the cutest trolls. Don't seem like the sharpest knives though.
Posted by: Warren at February 27, 2005 01:25 AM (bbB+U)
5
Nice come back, Warren (and good to see you again.)
Actually, there's only one troll. He amuses himself by using different names.
Posted by: Debbye at February 27, 2005 11:55 AM (1UGQM)
6
I suspected. Should I reactivate my Best of Joey contribution?
Posted by: mikem at February 27, 2005 12:38 PM (EzNXf)
7
Here you go, Mr. Warren, (and Rafer I suppose)... You didn't have a chance to begin with, but good try anyways. I was very impressed with your arguments at first. It wasn't until I started to pick away at them that I realized you were just labelling me most of the time and ignoring my main points.
-------
1) I don't think people should get worked up about the day passes, but if Dowd is REJECTED despite being from the NYT and Gannon gets in every day on that same day pass, then we MIGHT have a problem. That's the part of my post that you didnt' address by the way. I didn't forget.
2) On accepting gays, I have no doubt that many republicans don't have a problem with homosexuals. On this website particularly I don't think you guys hate them or anything. You just don't want them to marry. I know for a fact (because I watch American TV) that there ARE millions of right-leaning "right wing nutjobs" that hate gays. This is basically impossible to deny. It is common knowledge that the Republicans represent the religions nutballs who hate gays.
On the topic Cheney's daughter, I was assuming her existence. I was also reminded of the Alan Keyes daughter situation which is much worse. I'm not saying the Cheney's hate their daughter, and Cheney coming out on the side of gay marriage was commendable. That must have taken huge balls.
The point on the fact that many republicans are gay but cover it up is simply my earlier point of hypocrisy again. Gannon is simply one example of a "hard right" politico who for some reason would rather have the political benefits of the Republicans while defacing those that are like him.
On Condi not being black because she's republican. I made more sense than that. Let us point out here that the left doesn't tie themselves into knows. The truth of the matter is that the right-wing dominated news outlets LABEL the Left as tying themselves in knots. While Kerry's "flip flops" were easily explainable, he had nowhere near the capability to defend himself publically when he was lambasted from all side with the LABEL.
(Not that me OR John Kerry is a liberal in the first place, in any real sense of the word. That's another problem altogether, with people like Kerry and I again LABELLED before we can defend ourselves. In any other country but the U.S., the view of myself and especially Kerry would be centrist, if not slightly conservative.)
3) Oh my god, I can't believe you just defended a gay prostitute, meanwhile, trying to label me a homophobe. Again, you blatantly disregarded the main point I was making. (Same problem with labels as before)
Questioning my intelligence because I call you a "right wing nutjob"... AGAIN you ignore the facts. I just used good arguments to deflate each one of your attacks, which upon a first read seemed reasonable. On a second read, I simply realized that you weren't addressing what I'd said.
I call you people "right wing nutjobs" because I'm playing at your level... All over the right wing news and blogospher, suppossed left wingers are called "kooks" and other similar labels to what I call you.
There you go. None of your arguments could stand up to a simple retort based on the facts already presented in my first articles responding to Rafer.
Posted by: Rafer's Mom at February 27, 2005 04:30 PM (Ojo2r)
8
"None of your arguments could stand up..."
Despite judgment having been rendered, I would like to make a few points.
"While Kerry's "flip flops" were easily explainable... he was lambasted from all side with the LABEL."
That would be from the Bush campaign side and the (pro-Bush??) MSM? If you believe that Kerry was unfairly pegged as a flipflopper then you are waaay into faith based belief. You have stars in your eyes.
To be a Republican and gay is to invite the most virulent hatred, not from the right, but from the left and yes, from gays. It is no wonder Republican gays are more secretive after watching the public lynching of Gannon by liberals and leftists and the apologists for the lynch mob, like you.
" It is common knowledge that the Republicans represent the religions nutballs who hate gays."
It is also common knowledge that the Democrats represent the anti-religious nutballs who hate America, freedom and democracy. While it is true that not all Democrats fall under this description, it is certainly true that those type nutballs vote Democratic and not Republican. They also hate capitalism and free speech. In fact, the Democratic Party represents those who support speech codes and the criminalization of 'verbal harrassment'. They support all manner of restrictions meant to stifle free speech in America, as Canadians have done with their Orwellian speech codes.
You are quick with the generalizations, which condemn Deomocrats more so than Republicans.
Republicans don't hate gays. I don't. Most do not support changing a thousands years old tradition to include anything that people wish it to include. It is as simple as that. For many gays, including the ones who masturbate and feign anal sex in front of St. Patricks Cathedral to show their tolerance for others, it will always be all or nothing. They will increasingly have to settle for less, as people like myself tire of being abused as hatemongers and homophobes after supporting gay rights for years but not being willing to support gay marriage. Civil unions? Sorry, not enough, you f**king bigot. See, that makes a hatemonger feel good to be able to express such hate, but it leaves people like me scratching our heads and wondering why we should support people who hate.
I'll also say that you would be taken more seriously if you did not use multiple avatars and fake email addresses. I'm usually dismissive of comments from fake addresses, but using different avatars is just pathetic.
All in all, you definitely qualify to be a Kerry supporter. You are trolling, and shaming any real liberals.
Posted by: mikem at February 27, 2005 06:41 PM (EzNXf)
Posted by: Rafer's Mom at February 28, 2005 12:19 AM (Ojo2r)
10
MikeM, I am not into faith based belief... that's for you guys... Let's recap. Bush hasn't banned gay marriage or abortion... He flip flopped on the reason for war... And you and his followers still follow blindly. THAT is faith-based political beliefs.
Don't force me to defend Kerry. I don't even like him. I just now he was a more reasonable candidate than George W. Bush, and he was mislabeled as a flip flopper and anti-American. It was an extremely unfair election. Kerry didn't have the guts to defend himself, and for that reason I think he's a horrible politician.)
Posted by: Rafer's Mom at February 28, 2005 12:20 AM (Ojo2r)
11
I keep getting some error...
Posted by: I give up at February 28, 2005 12:26 AM (Ojo2r)
12
I can see why he would be the choice for you. Out of 300 or so fellow swift boaters, only SIX could be found to support his version of WarriorKerry. 200 plus said he was a liar, a traitor, and unfit to command. The rest refused to be quoted. His political career was begun and grew on his record as an anti-veteran, slandering his 'band of brothers', then he goosestepped across the DNC stage as proud Vietnam veteran WarriorKerry, scourge of the VC.
Definitely your type of leader.
Almost every self-critique by Democrats cited Kerry's flip flops as the primary reason for his defeat. Yet you see it as much ado about nothing, an illusion, that only you had the sense to not see. Not surprising.
Sorry about Saddam.
Posted by: mikem at February 28, 2005 02:04 AM (EzNXf)
13
PS When are you going to stop hiding and what are you so ashamed of?
Posted by: mikem at February 28, 2005 02:05 AM (EzNXf)
14
Rafer (in all of your incarnations):
Mikem is such a dogmatic hack that he has gradually turned the corner from "agressive defender of Debbye's honor and democracy" (odd coincidence there) to "hilariously oblivious self-parody".
To which you will respond with something about all "liberals" (Amrican "liberals" at that.Ha) hating America and God you're boring
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 28, 2005 11:23 AM (CI79g)
15
Oh my God, this is too rich. It IS you, Joey. I recognize the "...and God you're boring" and "Debbye's honor" remarks as well as the sdfsd addresses. How very rewarding. I actually shamed you into changing your online name. I am laughing my butt off at the thought of you embarrassing yourself so badly that you felt the need to reinvent yourself. Not only that, but your ego did not survive intact and you have emerged with multiple personalities/avatars, the better to show support from others.
Lord, I am unworthy of this honor.
For those who missed Blackglasses in his previous life as 'Joey', the following is a limited collection of his attempts to point out how dumb Americans are.
Best of Joey (1 - 3)
“You are either very funny, or very dumb. I going to assume you are very dumb..."
"We all know you aren't a vetran. You are much to fat too leave your house"
"Have you ever had sex with a human womam?"
Welcome home, Joey etc. And thanks for this gift, sincerely.
Posted by: mikem at February 28, 2005 01:43 PM (EzNXf)
Posted by: Blackglasses at March 01, 2005 12:13 AM (Ojo2r)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Raising the troops' morale
(
Kevin Lamarque / Reuters)
Feb. 25 - Damned straight they're cheering and clapping! And it's not only about sex appeal, but also about assertiveness, confidence, and the many good qualities of American womanhood.
All the same, I wonder if this picture will begin to appear in foot lockers (Betty Grable is sooo yesterday ...)
There's a more intellectual commentary at the WaPo on Condi's attire, but I think they missed the point.
Posted by: Debbye at
04:01 PM
| Comments (17)
| Add Comment
Post contains 80 words, total size 1 kb.
1
As a black male, I've always found Condoleezza as being one absolutely stunning black woman. I'm thrilled that people are finally taking notice.
Posted by: Rafer at February 25, 2005 10:25 PM (Ojo2r)
2
Okay, this has to be a big right-wing joke...
I've heard all over Fox News about how Condoleeza would make a great presidential candidate... That has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard OR the Right Wing is so unbelievably confident in themselves that they would run Willie Horton for Vice President.
1) Condoleeza Rice is Black and Female
- Do you really think that the South will vote so overwhelmingly as they did for George Bush when faced with the possibility of a BLACK WOMAN!
2) SHE'S UNMARRIED!!! This cannot be underestimated. The last time there was an unmarried president was when??? A long fucking time ago. Not to mention Condoleeza Rice is heavily speculated to be a lesbian... Is the right-wing that confident that they can just call the left "racist homophobes" when they attack Rice's record?
This is so unbelievably hilarious that I can't help but think this is really an elaborate joke.
... oh yeah. Let's not forget the memo thing, which WILL come back.... Not to mention the fuck up that is Iraq which WILL come up...
Again... hilarious.... I applaud.
Posted by: RAFER ALSTON at February 26, 2005 09:27 PM (Ojo2r)
3
And in advance, NO I AM NOT A RACIST HOMOPHOBE.
THE RIGHT-WING ARE RACIST HOMOPHOBES!!!! This is like calling the left homophobes for attacking jeff Gannon at all... It just isn't true.
YOU are the party of the people that would still have jim crow if you could.
(and yes I know the Republicans freed the slaves... BUT, the South which was the backbone of the party back then switched sides when the issue of civil rights came up in the 60s...)
Let's also not forget that Condoleeze Rice does not represent even a small portion of the black population of America... She is rich and ultra-conservative... NOT the woman of the ghetto.
Rafer
Posted by: RAFER ALSTON at February 26, 2005 09:30 PM (Ojo2r)
4
Aside from you using a pseudonym (Rafer Alston is a basketball player, and I highly doubt you are the same individual), you bring absolutely no coherent content to the table sir. I would be lowering my standards to converse with a person of your low level.
Good day, sir.
Posted by: Rafer at February 26, 2005 10:40 PM (Ojo2r)
5
HAHAHA BRILLIANT!
That's exactly what I predicted.
I clearly know the facts better than you. I clear have a better grasp of human reason and your simplistic arguments like "the left is petty" and "you are not coherent" just can't cut it!
Wise up Rafer. Read up on the facts and come back to tell me you realize you were wrong. I won't rub it in. I'll just wink and tell you I told you so.
Rafer
P.S. Of course I know who Rafer Alston is you dummy. That's why I picked the name, and that's why you did too. (reason being: I highly doubt your own name is Rafer... No conservative in the history of the world has been named Rafer.)
Posted by: Rafer Alston at February 27, 2005 12:45 AM (Ojo2r)
6
You know "Rafer Alston" just has to be on Karl Rove's payroll cuz I cannot visualize a real Democrat writing such a lame argument. You are blowing your cover "Rafer Alston", try to not be so obvious. Heh.
If anyone really believes that the US South will not vote for Condi, then I'd suggest the Democrats prepare themselves mentally for at least another 12 more years of Republican presidents (4 more years of Bush, then 8 years of Condi, then maybe 8 more years of (jeb) Bush).
Projecting your prejudices on others just doesn't make it so. But thanks for coming out.
Wasn't some of the lamest questioning in Condi confirmation hearing coming from former Grand Kleagle of the KKK, Democratic Senator Robert Byrd? Oh man...talk about historical irony. God is an iron.
Of course, what do I know (I live in Canada so I don't have a horse in this race).
Democracy needs at least two functioning parties. The Republicans may be arrogant, but the Democrats are clearly insane. And they don't seem to be getting any less insane with time. Time heals all wounds.
Posted by: Warren at February 27, 2005 01:50 AM (bbB+U)
7
Rafer, I think that
everyone has noticed what a stunning woman Dr. Rice is, they just couldn't find a PC way of saying so!
I'm with you Warren - the Democrats seem determined to self-destruct. We've seen parties collapse before and new ones emerge so it doesn't spell doom and tyranny, but it is frustrating.
Far too many Canadians don't get us. They never will get us. Instead of listening to what we say and observe what we do, they deconstruct and re-arrange everything to fit their own mental image.
I see the South voting for Dr. Rice because they'll look at her record, not her colour. Canadians haven't reached that level yet because they can't deal when their paternalistic stereotypes don't fit the person.
But ultimately all that really matters is that Americans "get" Americans and that we cheer heartily to have such an incredible a woman as Dr. Rice in our country's leadership.
And I am seriously considering buying those boots and that coat.
Posted by: Debbye at February 27, 2005 12:35 PM (1UGQM)
8
Saying Southerners wouldn't vote for Condie because she's an Unmarried, Black, Woman is one of the most styereotypical, predjudicial, and generallly bolloxed things I've heard in a while - it should be ammended to: "Southerners wouldn't vote for Condie if she was a Liberal Woman against the 2nd Amendment." That might have a shred of accuracy.
Posted by: -keith in mtn. view at February 27, 2005 02:49 PM (sE9R7)
9
Warren,
Again, you ignored the main points of my argument which I stand by, and you simply attacked my character.. basically calling me exactly what I said you would in the second post.
Read it and weep. And seriously? You're Rafer aren't you? Did you just change your name because I told you to e-mail me?.... again, it's fresnorafer@hotmail.com if you want to fess up without me calling you out in here.
-------
I am starting to believe that the Republicans can get away with running Condoleeza Rice... I guess what I should be saying is that if the Democrats ran her, she wouldn't have a hope in hell. The GOP party machine just seems so overwhelming powerful in the media and in the get out the vote campaign.
Calling me a racist homophobe, I already addressed that issue. I live near Church street in Toronto for Christ Sake... If I hated gays, there isn't a worse place for me to be.
In reality, Rice doesn't have a hope in hell of becomming president, for all the reasons I addressed plus her incompetence as a Kissinger-like "realist" (which I might have addressed, can't remember).
Posted by: Rafer's Mom at February 27, 2005 04:41 PM (Ojo2r)
10
Debbye, please for god sake don't wear those boots and that coat...
----------
Again with your insults of Canada? Why the fuck are you here?
If you really hate it so much and things are so much better in the U.S., why can't you afford to live there?
As for the insults about Canada "NOT GETTING" the U.S.... I think about 95% of the civilized/developed world doesn't "get" you guys b/c you are out of line. Most of the 1st world has moved past petty nationalism and relgious dogmatism.
And no, you are not above them because you belong to the greatest economic/military power in the world. That part isn't your fault.
Let's face it, the South represents the most backward elements of America, where all the big intelligent industry is primarily on the coasts. (or at least educates the people moving south to take the best jobs) That's where all of America's advancements have been made.
Let us not forget the finest economic period for the South, when they were actually ahead, was when you guys had a whole bunch of free labour.
And no, you do not represent the majority of Americans, you just have disproportionate power in the electorate... Not to mention Bush had the 9/11 fear on his side.
RAFER ALSTON, FOR TWO!
Posted by: Rafer's Mom at February 27, 2005 04:52 PM (Ojo2r)
11
I would appreciate it if you please chose a differnent handle. I refuse to talk to someone who claims to be my mother, or claims to be a basketball player with the same name as I.
On a side note, considering you have spent a great deal trying to flush out the opinions of the "right", here on this fantastic blog, I am wondering if you have a site of your own that gets trolled by right wingers.
I am willing to bet you don't. Those in the "right" don't go out of there way trying to puncture holes in other's ideologies, they just work on improving their own.
Posted by: Rafer at February 27, 2005 05:14 PM (Ojo2r)
12
How's that Mr. Alston, I changed my name.
I'm going to keep using this until you provide an argument that I can't rebut and again prove that in fact I AM your mother, intellectually speaking.
No I don't have a left wing website because I'm not a left wing nutjob... And you're wrong on the fact that right-wingers like you don't troll... you simply don't read differnet viewpoints. There IS a difference.
Warren and Rafer's Mother... lactating the truth for 5 straight season with the Toronto Argonauts of the Canadian lacrosse league
Posted by: Warren and Rafer's Mom at February 27, 2005 05:39 PM (Ojo2r)
13
My sympathies are with you Rafer, but if Debbye is willing to put up with it and you can stand it, I think his/her behavior and remarks are great advertising for "sophisticated, tolerant" Canada. Not the BS that Canadians of his ilk tell each other in their censored media, but the paradox of their talk versus their walk. Multiple avatars, hiding behind fake email addresses, all testimonials to that peculiar brand of Canadian courage.
Posted by: mikem at February 27, 2005 07:59 PM (EzNXf)
14
Good response Mikem!
Avoid the details and stick to the character attacks... American politics at its finest and a beacon of democracy for the world to follow!
Posted by: Rafer's Mom at February 28, 2005 12:28 AM (Ojo2r)
15
Avoid the details?? Contained in your posts? Like this one above??
"How's that Mr. Alston, I changed my name.
I'm going to keep using this until you provide an argument that I can't rebut and again prove that in fact I AM your mother, intellectually speaking.
No I don't have a left wing website because I'm not a left wing nutjob... And you're wrong on the fact that right-wingers like you don't troll... you simply don't read differnet viewpoints. There IS a difference.
Warren and Rafer's Mother... lactating the truth for 5 straight season with the Toronto Argonauts of the Canadian lacrosse league"
This is one of the saddest exchanges I've ever had. You put up this pathetic juvenile post, talking about someone's mom, saying silly things about yourself and your own mom, and then whine like a child that no one treats you like an adult. Grow up.
Posted by: mikem at February 28, 2005 02:14 AM (EzNXf)
16
I said this on the other threat and I'll restate it here: Don't use Anyone's Mom as your handle - you can make your points without being abusive to other commenters. If I have to delete (or edit) comments in order to end this practice I will do so.
I'm sorry Rafer and Warren for not catching up to this latest trend sooner and stopping it.
Posted by: Debbye at February 28, 2005 02:50 PM (HNlk3)
17
WRT Condi as a presidential candidate...I am coming to the conclusion as a white Southerner, that if any female has a chance of becoming president, Condi does. Conservative White Southern Men who vote will vote for her because the Republican tent is definitely much bigger than the Democrat tent and they will support their candidate.
I belong to neither party, and I have recently come to realise that the Republicans
are in fact a bigger tent. Bush has demonstrated that he can give real cabinet power to minorities and women without it having to be the traditionally "soft" departments like Housing and Education. Ok, Clinton had Albright, but did he have any significant Black cabinet members? (Vernon Jordan doesn't count.)
And, damn, she does look hot in those boots ;-)!
Posted by: James at March 01, 2005 11:42 AM (oAiul)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Canadian permission to defend ourselves - ha!
Feb. 25 - Greg Weston sees
a bright side to Martin's decision to stay out of missile defense:
If average Americans had been following Paul Martin's stand on U.S. missile defence, they would surely be relieved by yesterday's announcement that Canada will not be part of it.
An Armageddon warhead incoming at four kilometres per second is no time to be sharing command and control of North American air defence with a dithering prime minister.
Not so fast there -
PM Martin says the USA is supposed to ask Canada's permission before shooting down any incoming missiles:
Prime Minister Paul Martin is insisting that United States seek permission before firing any missiles over Canada.
Two words: Won't Happen.
14:13 - The latest test shot down a short range missile. 5 out of 6 - not bad for a system that "doesn't work." (via Peaktalk.)
Feb. 26 - Terrific post from Evan at 101-280 - Sweet Surrender not only on the ballistic missile defense (BMD) controversy but on the future of NORAD and the state of the Conservative Party of Canada.
Posted by: Debbye at
01:30 PM
| Comments (14)
| Add Comment
Post contains 190 words, total size 2 kb.
1
Haha, good luck Debbye.
I hope the 6th of those 6 interceptors lands on your house instead of mine.
Oh yeah, lets not forget, our old nemesis the Soviet Kingdom. THEY HAVE 13,000 NUCLEAR BOMBS!!!
China has over 400.
As I said. Good Luck.
Posted by: Bill at February 25, 2005 03:38 PM (Ojo2r)
2
Oh yeah, there's more.
Even if we did shoot down 5 nuclear bombs, are you aware of the fact that the nuclear radiation still occurs, albeit higher and more dispersed than expected, meaning the fallout would affect even more American "heroes."
Once again... Good Luck... It's always the stupid that lead us into war... I can only hope that in this case, the stupid die first.
(If you need me, I'll be hiding in artic tundra of Siberian Canada. Unfortunately even there, your stupid interceptors will plague me with first wave radiation.)
Posted by: Bill at February 25, 2005 03:41 PM (Ojo2r)
3
Progress! At least now the moonbats are admitting that the system might work. So now they're worried about above ground fallout.
The idea is to shoot down the missile before the nuclear warhead is activated. In case you didn't know the warhead isn't activated until the missile is above its target. If you can destroy it before then, you've rendered it harmless.
But oh well, we can't shoot them all down, so why bother with any of them. Do you live in Carolyn Parrish's riding?
Enjoy your new home in the arctic. According to the Kyoto-niks in another 100 years or so it will almost be habitable.
Posted by: TimR at February 25, 2005 04:17 PM (rr+yX)
4
Martin, in addition to being indecisive, can now claim to be as much of an idiot as Chretien. I can see the U.S. president, as a missile streaks in at 10,000 mph. (or whatever speed it atains), calling Mr. Martin asking for permission to intercept it. Martin meanwhile, can't decide if he likes his eggs poached or scrambled.
Posted by: John B at February 25, 2005 05:55 PM (ju7Wp)
5
A screaming comes across the sky.
Then another screaming comes across the sky.
It misses the first screaming coming across the sky. Whoops. Raytheon told us they worked that out in testing.
Now then.
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 25, 2005 07:46 PM (Ojo2r)
6
Blackglasses, that was the WORST story I have ever read. I think you should dust off some of your old Kipling and try again.
Posted by: Rafer at February 25, 2005 10:21 PM (Ojo2r)
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 26, 2005 01:05 PM (Ojo2r)
8
Rafer, you're seriously kidding aren't you?
Come on, just send me an e-mail and admit outside of this blog that you're trolling...
E-mail me at fresnorafer@hotmail.com and tell me you're kidding. I won't bring it up in here, but I won't pick on you and call you on your mistakes either.
Posted by: Rafer Alston at February 27, 2005 12:48 AM (Ojo2r)
9
I think that Mr. Martin ended up making a tough decision. Afterall, "joining" the US was not going to cost us anything, but it would have lent credability to a military program that lacks credability. The facts are that scientists and engineers from Alaska to Massachusetts all agree that designing and building "anti-missile missiles" is not possible, and it has been made even more difficult a proposition by the recent Russian announcement to build a hypersonic cruise missile to deliver nuclear, chemical and biological warheads. Such unmanned vehicles can cruise in the upper layers of the atmosphere at Mach 6 or better, and are capable of "high dynamics" manoevers that exceed 30 "g" along the entire path, making the problem of attacking and destroying them, virtually impossible with conventional explosives. You can think of them as hypersonic bombers that are continually doing aerobatic maneovers on the way to the target and what it takes to "intercept" and destroy such a bomber. And do not forget that these days stealth radar technologies allow such vehicles to have a minimum radar cross section as well. And since such vehicles travel just inside the atmospheric envelope, attacking them from spaceborn platforms is just as problematic, even with lasers and xray lasers.
Canada did a great deal of research on such weapons back in the 1960s and finally concluded in 1970 that such systems could only be effective with nuclear warheads large enough to destroy the incoming missiles. That of course defeats the entire purpose of a defensive missile shield. Nothing has changed in these earlier Canadian studies and nothing has changed in the conclusion.
I thought that Mr. Martin would have gone along with the Bush Administration in this expensive boondoggle on the US taxpayer, but to his credit he recognized bullshit when he saw it and was not afraid to say so publicly.
And I also think that Mr. Harper must be giving off a huge sigh of relief because the Conservatives know full well that this was simply a money grab by the Carlyle Group and its companies, since no credible scientist or engineer is prepared to recommend this sort of development. In case you have missed it, the Carlyle Group is now in control of the American nuclear weapons programs, and safely out of sight of Congressional oversight since its a private company. Oh yes, that is the same Carlyle Group that counts among its members the Bush Family and the Bin Laudin Family.
Canada concluded, back in 1970, and its valid still today, that the only workable method for nuclear arms control is "disarmament". By violating international missile treaties, the US is harming, not helping its own defence posture.
Congratulations to Mr. Martin for his willingness to call a spade a shovel.
Posted by: Joe Green at February 27, 2005 03:33 PM (5dXW9)
10
I'll be laughing my ass off the day, GOD FORBID, Canada is attacked and the politicians will be running to the U.S. first.
Posted by: Michael at February 27, 2005 03:49 PM (BQ8wu)
11
Far be it from me to interrupt kvetching about how the USA suxxors and is the real threat to world peace, etc., but the "5 of 6" number comes from the PAC-3 project, a theater-range Patriot follow-on designed to protect against SCUD-style short-range ballistic missiles.
The exoatmospheric NMD interceptors are different animals, and have had far less success, since they have a much, much tougher task.
Feel free to return to discussing how the Carlyle group controls the weather now.
Posted by: SparcVark at February 27, 2005 06:17 PM (X7hb0)
12
Whoops. That's the SM-3, not the PAC-3. Still boost-phase, still on short-range targets, still a different system than NMD.
However, by the laws of blog, anyone who wants to consider me a lackwit is welcome to do so.
Posted by: SparcVark at February 27, 2005 07:20 PM (X7hb0)
13
SparcVark, thanks for the information. You clearly know a lot about specific missile systems.
I wish I had paid more attention to parabolas and such back when I was in school and we were studying a broad range of ABM technology. I remember enough to recognize the difficulty of tracking and anticipating the course of incoming missiles and trying to hit a very small object in a very big sky.
Yankee ingenuity can't solve everything, but if we don't try we definitely won't succeed.
Posted by: Debbye at February 28, 2005 03:00 PM (HNlk3)
14
I wonder if he has considered that the only reason we would shoot missiles over Canaduh is if
someone else had already shot other missiles over Canada first?
W? T? F? Are the Norks or the Chinese going to get Canadian permission before they launch an attack against us that we need to defend against? This guy is a total dunce.
Posted by: Phelps at February 28, 2005 06:28 PM (EcSQO)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
February 24, 2005
Jihad on the Pacific Rim
Feb. 24 - If you have time (and even if you don't) I strongly recommend reading the article
Dire Straits by Austin Bay in the
Weekly Standard about the growth of terror networks in the Southern Pacific.
Posted by: Debbye at
10:05 PM
| No Comments
| Add Comment
Post contains 47 words, total size 1 kb.
Syria to withdraw - no timetable
Feb. 24 - Syrian troops says
it will move troops stationed in Lebanon to the east, i.e., the Bekaa Valley, a region of some interest after it was cited as one of the places Saddam's elusive WMD were said to have been hidden. (That's just one of many theories, okay?)
When even CNN used death quotes in their web site article this morning, I found myself with little to add (Syria 'commits' to Lebanon pullout) but I am struck with one hopeful (if fleeting) notion: is it remotely possible that the media, administration and American people are all of one mind on Lebanon?
Posted by: Debbye at
08:50 PM
| No Comments
| Add Comment
Post contains 115 words, total size 1 kb.
Button, button, who pushes the button ...
Feb. 24 -
US Amb. Paul Cellucci reflects the confusion of many Americans:
"We don't get it," Paul Cellucci said in Toronto. "If there's a missile incoming, and it's heading toward Canada, you are going to leave it up to the United States to determine what to do about that missile. We don't think that is in Canada's sovereign interest."
Clarification comes if you recall that the best way to duck the dirty work is to
let George do it, and Canada long ago left matters of continental defense to the USA.
There is more about US reaction to the latest Martin decision along similar lines as the first linked item in Missile decision prompts U.S. warning. Everyone is saying what you'd expect them to say, but it's all so very pro-forma that I wonder if Martin's announcement could really have been that much of a surprise.
But the timing! Need I even bother to go into the timing of Martin's announcement? The NATO conference was earlier hyped as being the ideal setting for Martin to step onto the international stage and reveal himself as a statesman capable of playing an intermediary role to reconcile Old Europe and the USA. Instead it became the setting for establishing more distance between Canada and the USA!
And what of NORAD? The 2004 amendment to the NORAD agreement to which Frank McKenna, the next Canadian Ambassador to the US, alluded expanded NORAD's mission and thus allowed Canadian personnel assigned to NORAD to track incoming missiles.
Future repercussions are a possibility, though, and opting out of missile defence could alter Canadian role in NORAD:
... retired lieutenant-general George MacDonald says that while excluding itself from the plan may ultimately change Canada's role in Norad, it won't end it. "Canadians will not have any participation in the actual decision-making or the rules of engagement or anything to do with ballistic missile defence," said MacDonald, a former vice-chief of defence staff and now a consultant.
"We will simply be feeding the system. And the question that ultimately may be asked is whether this is still an important mission for Norad to do."
At some point, MacDonald says, the Americans may want to lop off the warning element of missile defence from Norad altogether, thereby excluding Canada from the process outright.
I'd like to think that the US government wouldn't want to eliminate a platform which would facilitate inclusion in the plan should a future Canadian government (or even this one) choose to re-evaluate their role in missile defense, but the Opposition's silence before Martin's announcement makes them look like an Opposition only capable of responding to events rather than crafting them. That weakness might be cause for the U.S. government to judge them as too unreliable to merit future trust.
Pieter has some thoughts on the matter, and an excellent insight on those matters which, being "unspeakable" in Canada, help explain how the Opposition "failed the test of political competency."
23:22 Paul is in top form:
Extensive discussions between Mr. Dithers, Pierre Pettigrew - AKA Ludicrous Hair Man -, and Screeching Bill Graham...that sure does inspire a lot of confidence somehow, doesn't it?
The Three Stooges sort of come to mind for some reason...
Feb. 25 - 00:31: There's a lengthy (for us) thread over at the Shotgun.
New Sisyphus weighs in as, again, do the commenters.
From the Telegraph (UK):
Canada has turned down the Bush administration's pleas to join its missile defence programme, dealing a further damaging blow to relations between the North American neighbours.
Paul Martin, the prime minister, has secretly conveyed the decision to Washington despite a personal request from President George W Bush to think again.
[...]
The decision is believed to mark the first time in decades that Canada had refused a US request to join a strategic programme to defend the North American continent. (Bolding added.)
Can a Canadian application to join the EU be far away? (Oh, I'm sorry. Did that sound bitter?)
Feb. 25 - 14:29: It actually has gotten worse. See here.
Posted by: Debbye at
06:43 PM
| Comments (18)
| Add Comment
Post contains 682 words, total size 5 kb.
1
Cheers for the link, Debbye.
Posted by: Paul Jané at February 25, 2005 02:33 AM (FOtPl)
2
You're welcome! (Now get back to your homework ...)
Posted by: Debbye at February 25, 2005 04:27 PM (YRSpS)
3
Wow.
I wish I could see or read the reactions to that truth-filled assessment.
Indeed, Canada is certainly cozying up to Kofi, EU and the gang. Oh well... birds of a feather...
Posted by: Michael at February 26, 2005 01:36 AM (/eGwj)
4
What's wrong with the EU- especially the WEU?
I'v never understood this argument by you right wingers. Its just "HOHOH I HATE THE EU" without any valid reasons. I know loons like Jerry Fawell don't like it- but that can't be the only reason- can it?
As for birds of a feather, may i remind you that roughly 2/3 of the EU memberstates (including several "old Europe" members like Spain) participated in the Iraqi debacle of 2003.
Explain- what's wrong with the EU?
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 27, 2005 12:23 PM (Ojo2r)
5
Nothing's wrong with the EU. When run and organized properly, it can be a helpful ally. When the leaders of France, Spain, and Germany undermine the protection of the free world, insult and defile the American soldiers burried at Normandy beach - then there's a problem.
Chretien and Martin have aligned themselves with their French bretheren so many times that they're practically European now.
I'm not going to go any farther than that. I'd be better off talking to this wall in front of me than try to explain to a lib why America is the good guys.
Posted by: Michael at February 27, 2005 03:43 PM (BQ8wu)
6
"When run and organized properly, it can be a helpful ally."
By "run properly" assume you mean "turn it into an American dogsbody"
I don't know how they're defling the dead at Normandy as well (which is a cheap emotional off topic attack that's usually the last resort of bad writers) by choosing not to fight another war in which tens of thousands of civilians have died and was built upon flimsy pretenses in the first place.
Maybe the memory of senseless wars in which thousands have died are far too strong in the minds of many people to rush into war like the Americans have done many times in the past.
And Europe never threatened the security of the "free world". It wasn't like France pointed their nukes at North America and Germany pulled out of NATO.
Besides, we all know Iraq never was a threat to American security anyways. Just admit that. Please?
(PS i never called the US the "bad guys"- I'm Canadian. they've never bombed my country or supported death sqauds in it. So they're still OK in my book. As long as they keep talking baout their love of "freedom" (but not liberty) they're A-OK!)
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 27, 2005 05:07 PM (Ojo2r)
7
Michael wrote that "America was the good guys".
Yes indeed they are, but right now they are beseiged by a gang of outlaws. They have committed war crimes, violated the Geneva Conventions, and did so on orders from the top. It was Rumsfeld himself who said that the "Geneva Accords do not apply" to the conflict in Afghanistan for example, but somehow did apply in Iraq, at least until he violated them in Abu Graub.
The strategic defence of North American Airspace is going to require some serious fresh thinking that is going to involve Canada, Mexico and the United States, but not under this current regime in Washington. NORAD needs to be rebuilt, not simply tinkered with in the face of Russian announcements for the deployment of new hypersonic strategic cruise missiles.
Russia and China have nuclear weapons and are refining both the weapons and and the means of their delivery.
It is clear that the missile defense shield is a technical impossibility at the current time and the current state of the art, but its certainly correct that work should begin anew as to what needs to be done about the rising threat, not so much from North Korea as from China and increasingly Russia itself.
Russia today still have some 18,000 nuclear warheads or more. A new arms limitation treaty that would permit some modernization that would increase security and also provide for the decommissioning of these existing stockpiles is ESSENTIAL for all these countries, INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES AND ISRAEL.
We need a new NORAD structure for the twenty-first century that includes Mexico, Canada and the United States. However, it is not going to happen with this current Administration in Washington.
Posted by: Joe Green at February 27, 2005 05:12 PM (5dXW9)
8
You can be mean Joe Green.
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 27, 2005 06:00 PM (Ojo2r)
9
"It was Rumsfeld himself who said that the "Geneva Accords do not apply" to the conflict in Afghanistan for example..."
He said no such thing. He said that the Geneva accords do not apply to terrorists, either in Iraq or Afghanistan or anywhere for that matter, which is absolutely true. The fact is, if you do not sign the Geneva accords, you do not have their protection. If you do not fight in uniform, you do not have protection even if you sign. But the United States has always said that we would treat prisoners humanely. With that said, what happened did not by any stretch arise to the charge of war crimes. The US armed forces discovered the abuses, the US investigated, and the US prosecuted. Your statement of "on orders from the top", war crimes, etc is just typical Bush/Hitler accusation without evidence or logic. I was curious earlier about your sources, but now that I have read your idea of fact, I'll pass on the request.
Sorry about that Saddam thing, but you need to get over it.
I notice that they always feel free to criticize America, Britain and Australia but never dare to anger their enemies with charges of war crimes and abuse, even when they saw off the head of a woman who has given her life to helping Iraqis.
Very Canadian.
Posted by: mikem at February 27, 2005 08:35 PM (EzNXf)
10
"if you do not fight in uniform, you do not have protection even if you sign."
This inspired a long post.
Convention (III) relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
4. A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:[
(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) that of carrying arms openly;
(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
(3) Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.
Both the United States and Iraq are signatories.
Secondly, if you infact insist that "terrorists" should not be afforded protection under the Geneva convention, then by all means they should be considered CIVILIANS and afforded the same rights, if not better.
Rumsfeld did say such a thing. The United States acted in such a manner from Sept 2001 onward. In fact, by January 2002, Rumsfeld, under international pressure, acknowledged that the Conventions do apply to all of the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, reversing earlier statements to the contrary.
But, even today, Amnesty International and the Red Cross suspect that systemic human rights abuses are taking place in US military bases in Iraq, Afghanistan and Cuba.
As for the Geneva convention not applying to you if you are not a signatory, since the treaty has been ratified and upheld by some many countiries for such a long time, it is considered to be customary and gradually becoming an international norm. Violation of customs and norms is considered a war crime/crime against humanity as well (there was no Geneva convention and very little treaties regarding the conduct of international conflict prior to 1949, yet Nazis were tried foo offenses that violated international customs and norms-as well as the Big Four). A more contemporary example of this (that you may like) surrounds the display of POWs by the press and military officals. Neither the US or IRaq has signed the 1977 amendment to the convention, yet the customary belief was so strong that the United States claimed that Iraq was committing a war crime when it showed American POWs(notwithstanding the fact that Iraq was awash in thousands of journalists at the time).
How very American (though since you opine on Canadian politics, i suspect you are Canadian). Shooting your mouth off on something you know nothing about.
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 27, 2005 11:17 PM (Ojo2r)
11
What you quoted directly contradicts the point of view you are defending. You can't fight in civilian attire and be covered. You have to at least wear distinctive markings recognizable from a distance (see your own post above). I guess that eliminates every terrorist and Taliban along with Michael Moore's freedom fighters in Iraq who you cry over because they get their picture taken with underwear on their heads. All that your talk of war crimes accomplishes is to point out the high standards that you hold the US to while ignoring, deliberately, your own responsibilities for the horrendous abuses of the regimes you refuse to criticize. Citing the Red Cross and Amnesty Int'l does the same for them. Those organizations barely raised a peep while real war crimes were committed against millions of people in the totalitarian regimes that were overthrown. Amnesty Int'l fought desperately to prevent Saddam from being brought down. I lost a very good friend, a member of the AI group that concentrates on issues relating to torture, because our friendship could not survive his insistence that Saddam's continuing torture and killing of his people was preferable to the civilian deaths that would result from the Iraqi war. He also refused to give credence to the idea that Arabs could handle democracy, a remark I found racist and pathetic. I reminded him that the Democratic slaveholders in America's South said the same about blacks handling freedom. The Red Cross, after refusing to publicize incredible atrocities, including the Holocaust during WWII, based on their 'principles' suddenly decided that the US deserved condemnation so much that they broke the rules that prevented them from revealing that millions of Jews were being murdered. Sorry, Americans know that politics and not principle is involved there. It is the same politics that places Libya at the head of the Human Rights Commission after Lockerbie and rule by military dictator for 20 years, along with Syria. Give me a break.
American forces have shown remarkable restraint in dealing with terrorists in Iraq and around the world. That the US would punish our own soldiers for abusing prisoners while the murderers of the Iraqi people and their hopes for democracy are cheered by people like you and Michael Moore is indicative of the 'moral force' behind you.
Terrorists should be treated even better than civilians?? OK
How brave of you to condemn American, British and Australian actions for freedom and democracy while you avoid the battle. And yes, very Canadian.
Posted by: mikem at February 28, 2005 12:04 AM (EzNXf)
12
***Long post alert.***
Wow. Mikem knows better than international lawyers, Amnesty International, the Red Cross, The ICC, Strageitc institutes, legal and political academics, former JAGs, The ICJ, IR specalists, human rights groups, hundreds of years of internationally customs and norms, and the basic democratic principles that western democracies are founded upon.
Pray tell sir, please tell me names of your alma maters. I am intregued as to who as instructed you in the ways of the world.
Also you have deliberately misconstrued by post and attempted to throw it off topic by Michael Moore attacks(?), mentioning Nazis (Godwyn's law) and bizzare personal anecdotes that have no bearing on the discussion at hand.
I won't respond to each of your logical errors (there are many), but I will assure you i did not contradict myself.
If the insurgents are not considered by the US to be an international volunteer corps (likely in Afghanistan) or part of a mass national levee(or uprising, which is taking place in Iraq reagrdless of how you spin it) then the US should consider them to be civilians. Its not to say that they aren't fighting (they are) but just playing by the rules of the international game. Give combatiants their legal rights set out in treaty and custom, or treat them as civilians. Its that simple. Don't make up stuff about "enemy combatiants" and act like hypocrites while men(who could be innocent-and yes, it has happened, especially at Gitmo) languish in jails without basic legal protections while the US talks about the ideals of "Freedom" and "Democracy". Does it hurt your feelings that The Economist (a right wing and one of the most influential policy and finance mags)has condemend the US for human rights abuses in Iraq and Gitmo? So offended they were that they endorsed Kerry over Bush(!). Guess you better add The Economist to the every growing pile of "liberal" media.
The US supreme court also maintains that persons detained on military bases have a tangible connection to the United States and should be affored the constitutional protections that apply to any resident of the US. That includes freedom from cruel and unusual punishment, habeus corpus rights, etc. At it involved a case during the "war on drugs"-not a conventional war. So at the very least, the insurgents in American custody should be afforded some of the rights as a citizen, albeit in from a military legal framwork and one that deals with the issues surrounding terrorism and international conflict.
The US should respect the international ideals set out in custom, treaty and norms.
Afterall, they had a role in developing it in the first place.
As for you criticism of of Amnesty International and the IRCS as humanitarian groups that for some reason love dictators, well, I'd refrain from making such statments in the future. It doesn't make you look very smart. Many Western democracies like the US, the UK, France and Canada have appeared on Amnesty International's shit list, sharing space with secular and religious states, left and right wing dictatorships. They care about human rights, not some murky secret agenda.
I'm sure you will respond with exaggerations, maybe some Nazi/Stalinist references, bizzare anecdotes, invoke the names of Michael Moore, Susan Sontag and Noam Chomksy (your Muses?) and once again ignore every point that contradicts you makes you look like a fool. I suspect "unelected judges" will make a cameo as well.
PS: The US has committed several massive human rights abuses in the past without the perpretators ever seeing justice. They adopt a higher moral ground along with many other western democracies, but they are by no means angels.
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 28, 2005 11:58 AM (CI79g)
13
You are still arguing that terrorists, because they cannot be considered soldiers in the sense that those treaties are meant to cover, should be treated as civilians. My answer is OK, you do that. America will treat terrorists and combatants hiding in civilian clothes as they should, locked up until the end of the conflict. If you had any sense of real ethics, you would have at least spent a word or two condemning the terrorists who kill civilians and Coalition soldiers to prevent democracy from taking root in Iraq and Afghanistan. But your arguments are not meant to ensure civilized behavior, they are meant to legitimize terrorist actions against others by demanding that the terrorists be treated like peaceful protesters.
How about condemning the terrorists, man of many names for once, instead of condemning those who battle them? Or are your sympathies with them?
Posted by: mikem at February 28, 2005 12:49 PM (EzNXf)
14
Wow. That was a sad reaction. You ignored everything else out of what, fear? willful ignorance?
That's not what i said. You seem to be either trying to be taxing to me or just very thick.
I said if the US won't treat the insurgents as POWs with all the protections afforded to them by law and custom (because they are enemy combatiants) then they should classify them as civilians. This is not because they are civilians, but because it is wrong to leave anyone in legal limbo. And yes, it is. Its a waste of time at this point to explain it to you why, as i have done so already over the last 2 points.
Too bad. I was hoping to engage you in a serious discussion, but you jump to the stupidest conclusions possible. Very sad. I guess that happens when i love terror and hate democracy as you claim. I just posted two points calling for the US and people like you to respect democracy and human rights (as well as international custom and law) and yet you seem to think i support terrorists. Yes. Anti-Western and anti-democratic terrorist sympathizers hide behind western law, treaty and custom all the time. (of course, in your troll's little schema, they probably do)
I certainly hope you don't act this way in real life among real people. I can see why you lost your friend as you claimed. Because you are a knee-jerk idiot who jumps to cliched plaitudes and strawmen when he's faced with a serious debate.
Good job.
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 28, 2005 04:36 PM (NjfE5)
15
Nothing like hearing a lecture from someone who uses multiple avatars to build phony support for his repetitive claims of American evil around the world. Your demands for Americans to walk the perfect line in dealing with terrorists is just a whining lament that terrorists and dictatorships are losing ground around the world. I don't have to apologize for each and every sin an American soldier makes because they are all magnified in excruciating detail so that the do nothings like you can feel justified in standing behind while others defend freedom and democracy (I know, it makes you sick to hear that.)
Again, hold yourself and the terrorists you defend to the same standard.
Posted by: mikem at March 01, 2005 01:15 AM (EzNXf)
Posted by: Blackglasses at March 01, 2005 03:19 AM (Ojo2r)
Posted by: mikem at March 01, 2005 05:27 PM (EzNXf)
Posted by: Blackglasses at March 02, 2005 02:03 AM (Ojo2r)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
February 23, 2005
Estrogen Week with a Twist
Feb. 23 - I have to go to work shortly, but it's (hopefully) the last night working this stupidest of stupid schedules so will try to be cheerful, etc.
Just for the record, I hate it when some poor, bewildered man (like, oh I don't know, a respected academic at a leading university) has to apologize for speculating or musing on forbidden topics. It reminds me too much of the "confessions" Soviet and Chinese officials used to make shortly before they were sent into exile or were executed.
So although it's definitely not PC, I find the following side-achingly funny and, in its own twisted way, think it deserves an honourable mention during Estogen Week.
Schwarzenegger Accused of Being Anti-Women and issues a pro-forma apology. My favourite excerpt:
"But I realize that some women are angry with me, and for that I apologize. But let's be honest. When I apologize to women I don't mean a word of it and neither does any man in America.
So when those who have offended the PC police confess and apologize for the deplorable sins of being
insensitive and
unintentionally causing pain do you:
a) roll your eyes,
b) write down a really good phrase for future use,
c) curse him for being a Wimp and Traitor to Manhood,
d) forgive him, or
e) pump your fist and chalk up another victory for Women's Rights.
Feb. 24: I was unforgiveably sloppy in not making it clear that the linked post was satire and not a true news item. I apologize for the lapse.
Posted by: Debbye at
09:00 PM
| Comments (2)
| Add Comment
Post contains 268 words, total size 2 kb.
1
Good article Debbye. I just came across this site and I'll be a regular visitor.
The worst thing I find in my linguistics classes, is when a haughty taughty prof espouses his ideology that certain words and phrases can curb young minds into a specific worldview. (ie male-centred metaphors create a male centred worldview).
The PC police trying to change the world by changing what we can say? Scary indeed.
Keep up the fantastic work, Debbye.
Posted by: Rafer Jackson at February 24, 2005 10:16 AM (Ojo2r)
2
Thank you for the kind words, Rafer.
But don't give up on the kids - it's the forbidden fruit that's the sweetest, and the puritanical nature of those who want to "mold young minds" practically begs for rebellion!
Posted by: Debbye at February 25, 2005 01:02 AM (CQV49)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Iraqi Confidence
Feb. 23 - Despite the murders, bombs and kidnappings, Iraqi men keep enlisting in the security forces (
Iraqi police defy danger.)
"The danger is everywhere, but to serve your country is much better than to be afraid and do nothing"
Courageous words with which a nation is being built.
Posted by: Debbye at
08:16 PM
| Comments (1)
| Add Comment
Post contains 51 words, total size 1 kb.
1
My prayers are with the American troops every night. With courage and determination, the new Iraq will hopefully be a place I can bring my children to for a summer vacation.
Posted by: Rafer at February 24, 2005 03:55 PM (Ojo2r)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Canada's in, no out, no both ...
Feb. 23 - Paul Martin, please call home. There seems to be some confusion as to Canada's participation in the Missile Shield Defense program (
Missile muddle.)
As the article notes, the amended NORAD agreement makes Canadian participation in the program de facto but there is a loophole if one squints hard enough. Bob explains better than I could.
A generous interpretation is that the Canadian government wants to pretend they aren't protected under the shield in order to placate any one of the xxxx groups lined up to scream hysterically about the weaponization of space, the environment, Canadian sovereignty or the relative merits of Final Fantasy VIII; a less generous interepretation is that they don't know what the hell they're doing.
I expressed a wish long ago that the USA could implement the missile shield without defending a reluctant Canada, and now I read that Japanese inclusion could make that happen. Wouldn't that be interesting!
Via Peaktalk, a CS Monitor headlines nails it: US allies: Australia signs up, Canada signs off (Australia is sending 450 more troops in Iraq in order to protect Japanese engineering teams.) The article points out a key difference: Howard has a majority government and Martin has a minority one, and who really doubted the outcome when Martin decided to form a government with the NDP?
Posted by: Debbye at
07:50 PM
| No Comments
| Add Comment
Post contains 234 words, total size 2 kb.
Tent city in Beirut - Cedar Revolt
Feb. 23 - Good reads about Lebanon:
The Washington Post has a very suggestive article on Beirut's Berlin Wall and notes that a "tent city" has been set up of protesters. I immediately thought of Ukraine.
Amir Taheri (who should need no introduction) in People Power Hits Lebanon.
Anyone who lives in or near the LA area should check this out: Demonstration in support of Lebanon sovereignty in LA.
Events in Lebanon could still go tragically wrong, but the sheer will and confidence exhibited by the Lebanese after so many years of occupation by Syria is so uplifting that I just want to savour it.
Freedom is on the march, and it's never too late to join.
Feb. 24 - More on the tent city here:
The tent city rose up near the immense crater created by the blast that killed Mr. Hariri and 16 others, peopled by protesters who refused to go home after a demonstration Monday described as the largest anti-Syrian protest ever held.
Divided into small groups according to affiliation -- the Christian Free Patriotic Movement (FPM) in one area, the followers of Druze leader Walid Jumblatt in another -- the camp has been growing daily since Monday.
Inspired by December's Orange Revolution in Ukraine and the Rose Revolution in Georgia a year earlier, the protesters have begun to call their action the "Cedar Revolt" in a tribute to the tree that adorns the Lebanese flag.
Posted by: Debbye at
07:41 PM
| Comments (2)
| Add Comment
Post contains 252 words, total size 2 kb.
1
From that WP article:
'It's strange for me to say it, but this process of change has started because of the American invasion of Iraq," explains Jumblatt [A Lebanese man]. "I was cynical about Iraq. But when I saw the Iraqi people voting three weeks ago, 8 million of them, it was the start of a new Arab world." Jumblatt says this spark of democratic revolt is spreading. "The Syrian people, the Egyptian people, all say that something is changing. The Berlin Wall has fallen. We can see it." '
Gee, if only Bush was a Democrat this would be considered a good thing. Maybe Martin will intercede and explain to our European friends how much we wish to make amends for these developments.
Posted by: mikem at February 23, 2005 08:53 PM (EzNXf)
2
Nice shot, Mikem! Unfortunately, though, Martin is having trouble tieing his shoes these days.
The WaPo article was truly excellent. I hope you also had a chance to read Taheri - he managed to out-enthusiasm us!
Posted by: Debbye at February 25, 2005 01:17 AM (CQV49)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Estrogen Week in Canada II
Feb. 23 -
Welcome to readers sent by Ilyka.
Continuing to celebrate Estrogen Week up here:
Glenda takes a strip off the proponents of national day care with - what else? some common sense:
Are the old white guys in suits asking us to embrace institutionalized day care because it's better for our kids?
Looks to me like they want us to believe that the woman who lives down the street, (the woman I know and trust ) who looks after my kids is providing inferior care. That my kids are not going to be healthy, well adjusted and intellectually ready for school if my mother or my sister agrees to look after them while I work.
Ken Dryden can blow early learning out his ass. There is a reason rich folks hire nannies and live-in house keepers. They know and can afford what is best for their kids. The rest of us do the best that we can. And that doesn't always include institutionalized day care.
Sari writes about the
union vs. Walmart in Montreal with some not so well known information as to how long Walmart negotiated with the union:
If Wal-Mart was simply trying to bust unions, they would have closed in October, instead of spending months trying to negotiate. In all that time, however, the union didn't budge an inch, making it patently obvious that the union's negotiaters weren't looking for a workable settlement; instead, they were trying to make a political point.
Sari was, by the way, proven right: the suggested boycott of Walmart lasted all of what - 5 minutes? It was in fact mentioned by the media up here - once.
Kate has only just returned to Saskatchewan after attending a dog show yet I found her post on the show strangely appropriate (I've taken the quoted section very much out of context):
Yeah, I'm a bad loser. A really, really bad loser. I don't make scenes or get in people's faces, but I bitch and complain with the best of them. I don't apologize for it, either. An aversion to losing is a fundamental ingredient to competitive success.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser".
Somehow I don't think she had to resort to smelling salts at the show.
The Essay explains the intricacies of being a Ninja Wife. Please note she lives in Edmonton, which explains why she has so much confidence in her ability not only to find a doctor but to find one who can remove an alarm clock from (I hope) a forehead.
Lastly and back-to-the-original-pointedly, The Truth About York takes up the cause of a one conservative female who just might have the mettle to withstand a grilling before a Senate Commiteee and even (gasp!) the Sept. 11 Commission.
(Although this is not how I had planned to spend my night off, this celebration provided an additional upside: there is a Law of Unintended Gratification!)
Posted by: Debbye at
12:33 AM
| Comments (8)
| Add Comment
Post contains 496 words, total size 4 kb.
1
My god. Its come to this. Referencing a Geocites site.
A Geocites site.
Wow. Will you start to decorate your blog with happy little angels that follow my cursor and terrible embedded MIDIs next? GOD. You people love your little circle-jerking soundproof bubble (painted black so you can't see out and see any dissent) so much YOU ARE WILLING TO QUOTE A GEOCITIES SITE.
This site is offically a livejournal
Current Mood: Angry at liberals
Current Music: The sweet sound of freedom
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 23, 2005 01:53 AM (Ojo2r)
2
Blackglasses, I honestly don't know what the heck you're talking about! You don't seem to take issue with the content of the post so I don't see how the domain would be a problem.
Posted by: Debbye at February 23, 2005 07:23 PM (V4h6U)
3
I sympathize with the ex-Walmart employees but the villains here are their union reps who told them they could bring a hugely successful and popular business to its knees by threatening to shut it down and put everybody out of work. Well, they shut it down and everyone is out of work, so the union's threats worked and Walmart will shrug off the investment loss and open somewhere else. Everyone loses.
Unions had their time and place and some still do. I fully supported unionism, even when some were allied with groups I did not support (the enemy of my enemy...), because businesses were able to, and did take advantage of economic isolation to impose lower than market wages. But that no longer is the case and unions are more and more seen as taking businesses, communities and workers hostage to their all or nothing posturing. A union that demands substantially above market wages does not represent 'the workers'. It represents a narrow slice of workers. Fair enough. But there are other workers, perhaps in other places, who will not require high wages for essentially entry level work.
Sorry for the rant, but I used to admire unionism and the auto unions woke me up to the damage that a selfish union can do.
PS The Canadian government should really look into this Geocities thing that BG is so upset about. It is an issue worthy of Canada's place in the world.
Posted by: mikem at February 23, 2005 07:46 PM (EzNXf)
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 24, 2005 03:53 PM (Ojo2r)
5
Since when is personal testimony an unvalid piece of information. Geocities is full of opinion, from left to right, like blogger.
I suppose, Blackglasses, you are fine with the status quo, having the media spoonfeed you your daily soundbytes of the day.
I frequent many Geocities sites for daily news and opinion. Some are personal friends of mine, some I'm not sure whom they are. But I don't know Dan Rather either, why should I trust him over someone witht their own website. Obviously, his CBS filters didn't care about what his content was.
Also, mainstream media fails to cover stories because of their bias. For example, there are many great stories of Iraqies rising up against the terrorists in Iraq, but there are no stories about that on the news. It's always bad news, troops are bad. The TROOPS ARE GOOD!
Thank you, and good day.
Posted by: Rafer at February 24, 2005 04:51 PM (Ojo2r)
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 25, 2005 12:39 AM (Ojo2r)
7
Maybe you should dust of those foggy spectacles of yours and re-read, old fellah.
Posted by: Rafer at February 25, 2005 03:12 PM (Ojo2r)
8
I'm sorry. I just can't make sense of things that look like they're straight from freerepublic.com
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 25, 2005 03:23 PM (Ojo2r)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
February 22, 2005
Estrogen Week in Canada I
Feb. 22 - I'll celebrate
Estrogen Week in my own back yard!
Welcome to readers sent by Ilyka.
Kateland looks at the disapproval of Canadians over American attempts to encourage the growth of democracies and notes the Canadian fondness for China and Cuba:
Geez, what do you expect from a country where an elected member of the ruling political party can stand up and say, "The government will not tolerate statements that create dissonance in our society" and the official Opposition and/or the Canadian public did not howled her down in outrage. She should have been run out of Parliament on a rail and not returned with a majority.
Kathy refuses to fall in line with all those bemoaning Hunter S. Thompson's suicide and declares him to be a
teenage boy obsession.
Marzi has decided she's changed her mind about Michael Moore (in a wickedly wonderful way) and notes his silence after the Iraq elections.
Angua lists reason 4532-76Q why the U.N. is more useless than a bag of doorknobs (scroll down):
I am not actually that picky -- some graffiti on a London synagogue is fine by me if that means that someone somewhere will do something other than tsk about Sudan.
But, but, they tsk so well!
Broad at bat made me laugh while reminding me how grateful I am that I don't have daughters. Her writings are fun and warm, and she proves that you don't need to be a political blogger to demonstrate courage.
More tomorrow.
Posted by: Debbye at
09:59 PM
| Comments (7)
| Add Comment
Post contains 256 words, total size 2 kb.
1
After two boys(12+20)I don't think I have enough hair left to even THINK about what a daughter would be like.
Posted by: big al at February 23, 2005 03:13 AM (H2S02)
2
LOL. I must admit that I cheerfully stepped aside and deferred to the kids' father once "male" type issues began to come up!
Posted by: Debbye at February 23, 2005 07:32 PM (V4h6U)
3
LOL?
What's next?
ROFLMAO?
Debbye- for shame. The march towards livejournalry continues.
It starts with a simple "LOL" and next thing you know, you'll be uploading Harry Potter fanfiction, opening up a deviantart account (with badly drawn anime characters) and asking us for online *huggles*
Current mood: Yiffy
Current Music: Yukrio Miike- "Gundam Wing Megamix"
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 24, 2005 03:59 PM (Ojo2r)
4
Those with, blog. Those without, troll.
Posted by: mikem at February 25, 2005 05:43 AM (EzNXf)
Posted by: mikem for Blackglasses at February 25, 2005 05:45 AM (EzNXf)
6
I love how i have become mikem's bete noire in the matter of a few short days.
What would happen if i did this for a month i wonder?
Also: mikem- are you canadian or american? I was reading some of your posts and your nationality seems to shift alot. What are you?
Just a little lost boy from freep?
Posted by: Blackglasses at February 25, 2005 03:27 PM (Ojo2r)
7
Phony avatars, phony email addresses. And you think I am the one who is lost?
What are you so ashamed of? I bet one of your previous versions of yourself was 'Joey' and/or 'nth', who spent a couple of months here embarrassing themselves and Canada. Same type of whining for terrorists who kill civilians with glee, doggedly fight against democracy for 'their people' and who proudly videotape each other sawing off heads. What courage it takes to stand up to Bush and appease the terrorists and dictators!
Posted by: mikem at February 28, 2005 02:45 AM (EzNXf)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
PM Martin at NATO Summit
Feb. 22 - From this morning,
Martin quiet at NATO summit:
BRUSSELS (CP) - Prime Minister Paul Martin tiptoed around the edge of the limelight Monday prior to the NATO summit as U.S. President George W. Bush's attempted reconciliation with Europe took centre stage. [Aside: What. Ever.]
[...]
Prior to the gathering in Brussels, senior federal officials played up Canada's role as a potential intermediary between the world's only remaining superpower and a continent that is routinely alarmed with the unilateral bent of the Bush administration.
But there has been no evidence of any fence-mending diplomacy by Canada, as none of the prime minister's bilateral meetings during the summit include any outspoken opponents of U.S. foreign policy.
Nevertheless, Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew insisted that Canada's role, although unseen, was still important.
"It is a very natural role for Canada to play a bridge between the United States and the European Union," he said.
"We have a lot of friends in Europe. We are highly regarded on the positions we've taken. At the same time, we are the United States' immediate neighbour, their best friend."
Indeed. See the
post below on Frank McKenna, Canada's next Ambassador to the U.S., and
his views on this bestest of friends relationship. Maybe it's just me, but I'd nominate Australia and Great Britian for best friend status over Canada.
From this evening: the Prime Minister broke his silence to address the delegates on Iran:
Prime Minister Paul Martin warned NATO leaders Tuesday that they should be prepared to stand up to Iran in order to check the Islamic republic's potential nuclear ambitions.
He told the 25 other alliance leaders at the end of their one-day summit in Brussels that the Islamic republic poses a "serious proliferation threat."
While "diplomacy and dialogue" remain a top priority, the prime minister said the world community "must be prepared to stand behind our words with stronger measures, if necessary."
Tougher measures could include UN-mandated sanctions, but U.S. President George W. Bush has repeatedly suggested he's prepared to use military action if diplomacy fails. (Bolding added.)
Right. Sanctions. Golly gee whiz, what Iranian product might
possibly be subject to U.N. sanctions?
Given the results of a recent poll, Yanks "Slick" (sic) and Tired of U.N., I don't think U.N. imposed sanctions are going to be well received by either the American public or Congress. (NY Post link via Neale News.)
The PM was at least more candid than his "senior federal officials:"
Prior to the summit, federal officials played up Canada's potential role in bridging the gap between Europe and the United States, but Martin admitted he was largely on the sidelines.
"The truth of the matter is, to the extent there was a rift, I think it was healed by President Bush and the Europeans," he said. "Canada has a pretty good understanding of both sides and we'll continue to play the role."
Continue to play the role of being on the sidelines? Or play the role of having a good understanding of both sides? (To be fair, I think that could be a bit of sloppy journalism, although it's also possible that the writer was just as bewildered by that last statement as I.)
Posted by: Debbye at
07:50 PM
| Comments (3)
| Add Comment
Post contains 537 words, total size 4 kb.
1
Did you know that Canadian politicans are enabling Canada to sound like a snow covered laugh track?
Posted by: Richard Cook at February 23, 2005 11:12 AM (Km34P)
2
Richard, now you know the real reason Canada produces so many comedians (many of whom move to the US. as quickly as they can.)
Posted by: Debbye at February 23, 2005 08:02 PM (ZGNQX)
3
This is a hard call regarding Iran. A year ago or more I would have awaited the predictable 'take out' by the Israeli Air Force, with America's silent assent, but the murmurs of democracy that are gaining momentum in Iran as a result of their population watching the Iraqi's celebrations and courage at the polling stations, well, that provides perhaps false hope that a strike is not the only possible solution. Sanctions will not work because France, Russia and the UN elites will play the same game as they did in Iraq, trading profits for collaboration with the Iranian mullahs regardless of what the official UN line is.
But I wouldn't expect Israel to wait too long. They can't afford to. With the mullahs in charge, Iran is essentially one huge suicide bomber. With the people in charge, as in a democracy, that changes everything.
Posted by: mikem at February 23, 2005 08:09 PM (EzNXf)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
198kb generated in CPU 0.0816, elapsed 0.1969 seconds.
77 queries taking 0.1332 seconds, 320 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.