November 30, 2004

The President comes to Canada

Nov. 30 - Welcome to Peaktalk readers!

Bumping this up as it is very much the news of the day up here.

No, I'm not in Ottawa wishing the president well and adding my voice to those who genuinely welcome him. He heard my voice when I voted, and I think he is aware of the large number of ex-pats who defied the pundits and turned out to vote for him in large numbers.

As I post this President Bush is landing in Canada, and the malice from those polite Canadians at work - which had been suspended after the election - picked up again but with different results because I wouldn't play. Why should I? These are people who assert that if there was oil in Sudan the USA would have been in there ... they trust CBC and the Toronto Star, and I trust facts. There is no common meeting ground beyond work and I can smile, nod, and know I am looking at people who have failed to acknowledge that the world is beyond that which our mainstream media portrays.

Canadians have Martin and we have Bush. We have as president a man who says what he means and means what he says, and they have a prime minister who's most notably strong move has been to kick Carolyn Parrish out of the Liberal caucus for criticizing him despite CNN's assertion that it was for her anti-American statements and behaviour on TV.

I have total confidence that the president will listen to NDP leader Jack Layton and Bloc leader Gilles Duceppe politely and pay little heed to the dial-a-demonstrations; after all, he is President of the USA, not of Canada.

Nevertheless, I really do wish there would be some research into the feasibility of deploying a missile shield that does not cover Canada.

Much of North American is speculating as to whether official relations will or will not be smoothed between the two countries but what has always been at risk are the unofficial relations, i.e., the attitudes of the two populations which are decidedly not affected by official dinners, pomp, and speeches before Parliament.

I warned prior to the election that the rest of the world was gambling far more than they realized with the Bush-hatred, and now that the American electorate has spoken decisively (and the more observant should have drawn the proper conclusions noting how far to the right John Kerry had to bend to get the vote he did get) and as it would appear that much of the world media has chosen to declare that we, the American people, are as dumb as our President, some lines in the sand are irremediably drawn.

So be it. So why are they busy kissing our asses now? It's all about the trade.

I would have said more but Flea beat me to it with comments he made on what is actually a non-related subject but totally apropos:

What surprises me about this latest analysis is the continuing realization that so many people truly believe the United States to be omnipotent. It is not. In this respect I see the street protests as a psychological reaction to an imagined "bad father" who should have protected them on September 11. Continuing troubles in an imperfect world are, in this light, an immoral or irresponsible choice on the part of the bad father rather than an improvisation in the face of the bad hand dealt to us by the jihadists and the better part of a century of accommodation with the ruling family of Arabia. (Bolding added)
Either we are all-powerful and all-seeing, in which case we can never make any mistakes, or we are as error-prone as any other human and doing our best under adverse circumstances. One isn't supposed to be able to have one's cake and eat it too, so I wish folks would make up their minds and pick either omnipotent or mere mortal. It would make debates much more manageable.

10:59: I am watching the CBC, and whathisname actually asked what impact demonstrations in Canada would have on Americans. The response by Allen Gottlieb was that the demonstrations would have less impact than had he been heckled in Parliament.

Perhaps so, but my answer would have been that the Democrats - none of whom live abroad except Chelsea Clinton, and she was dismayed at the degree of anti-Americanism in Oxford immediately after Sept. 11 - would whine about how much our "prestige" has "fallen" in the world, and most Americans would shrug regardless. Since the dismal state of the Canadian military is a pretty widely-known fact, how much respect can Americans have for a people who are unwilling to defend themselves?

11:01: The contribution Canada could make to running the elections in Iraq leaves out the fact that any Canadians there would be targets. Would Canada risk their own to help Iraqis have free and open elections? Right.

11:04: David Frum is more analytical than I in a column published in today's National Post (available here) as well as more conciliatory:

Bush is working on the assumption that many allied governments feel that they have allowed their disagreements with the United States to go too far. In 2002 and 2003, for example, Jean Chretien--like Germany's Gerhard Schroeder and some other leaders as well--seemed to have decided he could earn some easy political points on the left-hand side of the political spectrum by running against George Bush. That decision may have been aided by a calculation that Bush was an accidental president likely to lose in 2004. Now that the President has been returned to office with great political power, those 2002-03 calculations are looking less shrewd. A minority Canadian prime minister does not want to spend the next four years quarrelling with a popular president backed by a congressional majority. (Emphasis added)
In other words, the president, from a position of decidedly stronger domestic strength than, say, Prime Minister Martin, is extending his hands in friendship; a lesser man would behave far differently, but I doubt rabid Bush-haters will recognize or understand what they are seeing.

Wiser heads may reflect that he is capable of doing so because he has much bigger concerns than personal pique or feelings of self-consequence; they will even recognize that he is indeed a leader because he can consign the slurs and insults to their proper place and keep this young century's chief challenge at the forefront of his agenda.

He is determined to give credit wherever he can, to encourage the efforts - large and small - to the allies in the war on terror, and to continue to build that coalition and urge it forward.

15:00: A Minority of One takes a look from Ottawa and has some well chosen words for Canadians who chose to forget Canada's tradition before peacekeeping:

Hey, you there, you, with the stupid sign. So how should Canada, with its sacred values, have addressed the agression and murderous thuggery of Hitler and Co.? What should we have done in response to the conquest of Hong Cong and the subsequent use of Canadian citizens as slave labour in Japanese coal mines? Curious minds want to know.
A small part of an excellent rant!

16:13: The CBC is estimating that 5,000 demonstrators got to mix it up with police, and something very strange:

Also present were activists in favour of legalized marijuana, same-sex marriages, and a woman's right to choose, as well as students, grandmothers and groups ranging from Lawyers Against the War to Bellydancers Against Bush.
There are more demonstrations planned for tomorrow, they say.

A CBC Online Diary gives a moment-by-moment account of the Bush visit. Read it and judge for yourselves.

17:32 - Toronto Star headline reads Defiant Bush stands by foreign policy. The-title-under-the-headline is Smaller-than-expected protest greet U.S. president. (It must have really hurt to have to print that one.)

The story:

OTTAWA — George W. Bush rode into town today with kind words for Canada but a defiant message for anyone who thinks he’ll back down from his controversial foreign policy.

The U.S. president arrived in Ottawa for a whirlwind two-day visit designed to warm bilateral relations and begin mending international fences in the wake of the Iraq war.
Still with that excuse? I lived here too many years to let them get away with pretending all the troubles began when we went to Iraq. The Star was especially vicious immediately after Sept. 11.
But the Texan was unbowed when asked about a recent poll suggesting most Canadians donÂ’t like his policy direction.
He's not the president of Canada but of the U.S.A. It's not his job to please Canadians.
“I’m the kind of fella who does what I think is right,” he told a joint news conference with Prime Minister Paul Martin.

“We just had a poll in our country where people decided the foreign policy of the Bush administration ought to stay in place for four more years.”

It was not exactly the message many had been expecting from a second-term president reputed to be eager to win back allies alienated by his decision to invade Iraq.

Nonsense. The only Canadians pretending to have expected a different message are probably writers for the Star setting up tomorrow's editorial and columns. (Now you all know why I rarely read the Star.)
It also did nothing to soothe the anger of protesters who scuffled with police after being blocked from marching down the main thoroughfare in front of Parliament.
That, of course, is the real reason President Bush is visiting Canada: "to soothe the anger of protesters."

The prevailing attitude in most of the mainstream media seems to be that Bush needs to repair relations with Canada, thus implying that the USA has more to gain from better relations than Canada, yet without missing a beat stories go straight to the numerous trade issues (especially softwood lumber and the beef trade) which are rankling Canadians.

What exactly does the USA gain from better relations from Canada? I have my own reasons which center on increasing US security, but Canada has a great deal to lose should the border be closed in the event of another terrorist attack and should that attack originate in Canada there will be hell to pay.

18:02 - Heh. Lou Dobbs on CNN is reporting that the president found Canadians less than friendly, and John King is also promoting the Myth of Bitter Disputes Over Iraq. (But then CNN is still disconsolate that France didn't join us so their observations may be less than objective.)

As I recall, then PM Chretien announced that Canada wouldn't lend even moral support because he didn't support the notion of regime change, and the bitterness was pretty much limited to those Canadians who felt Canada should support her traditional allies Great Britain and Australia (and the USA,) and those who were far too enlightened to stop a maniacal, genocidal monster who terrorized his own people.

18:30 - The Fox website says that "Bush had a cool relationship with former Prime Minister Jean Chretien (search), but Martin, in office less than a year, has sought to repair the damage." What they imply but don't say is that Martin has had to step carefully because the anti-Americanism which was given full rein under Chretien is harder to put back into the bottle than it was to let out; furthermore, and this is the part that is hard for Americans to understand (as we don't have a Parliamentary system,) is that he is in a coalition government with the leftist New Democratic Party (NDP) and the Liberal Party depends on their support to remain in power.

Posted by: Debbye at 02:15 PM | Comments (17) | Add Comment
Post contains 1951 words, total size 13 kb.

1 the malice from those polite Canadians at work - which had been suspended after the election - picked up again but with different results because I wouldn't play. Why should I? This excerpt reveals a great deal of your psyche and you massive inferority complex. You are probably a bitter old woman who lives friendless in a strange land (Canada). You have nothing in your life- not even a cat- to comfort you and come home to. You are scared and alone. So you adopted the one thing in your life that made you feel like you were a part of something- the United States. Your former country is now your husband, son, lover. It takes the place of all those things in your empty life- it makes you feel superior to claim to be a part of a country that is wealthy and militarity powerful. You feel less inferior. Any criticism of your "family" (which is very dysfunctional) wounds you deeply. That is why you are upset so greatly when those around you criticize the patirarchal figure(Bush) no matter how valid their criticism are. You are a scared insecure child all alone. All your sound and fury- your rage and bitterness about this hellish hinterland we call Canada- is nothing more that a game of "my dad could beat up your dad" writ large. I pity you. These are people who assert that if there was oil in Sudan the USA would have been in there ... they trust CBC and the Toronto Star, and I trust facts. How come the CBC is the bete notre of the expatriate American right wingers? They have considerably higher journalistic standards than Fox news, CNN and internet blogs. Is is because they touch on things that hurt your "father"? Are dead Iraq civilians so troubling that you can't even bear to acknowledge that non-combatants are dying in American attacks? I know this is a meaningless conversation. You have a warped view of the world. Your slavish belief in White House talking points as totally correct is, quite frankly, disturbing. Just remember American - your views are our of step with the industralized world's. You are stepping backwards with your politics and beliefs while we move forward. This will continute for years, until your country becomes the laughing stock of the global community. God Bless the USA.

Posted by: Joey at November 30, 2004 12:25 PM (Ojo2r)

2 Joey, Joey, please! Good God man, you're embarrassingly naive. Was that you carrying that sign? http://sanityisnotstatistical.blogspot.com/2004/11/presidential-visit-to-ottawa.html Debbye: "These are people who assert that if there was oil in Sudan the USA would have been in there ..." Perhaps you could remind them that Sudan does have oil. Lots and lots and lots of oil. And that one of the Big Players there was a Canadian company until they sold out to Indian and Chinese interests. And that if the U.S. were in there, they'd all be whining about American imperialism. Sigh ...

Posted by: keith at November 30, 2004 12:53 PM (xfdnu)

3 Debbie my question still stands why should the President come here in the first place nothing the people down south can do to so called please the Canadians.

Posted by: Dex at November 30, 2004 12:57 PM (kO17P)

4 Joey, I should have warned you earlier that I am a veteran of Usenet, which probably means little to you but is where the ancient practice of flame wars began. Water off a duck's back, kid. Keith, I had hoped you were able to attend today's events in Ottawa but look forward to your report when you post it. Earning an honest living has its drawbacks! I did tell the folks at work about Sudan's oil and Chinese and Russian interests there to explain their abstentions vote in the UNSC, but if it doesn't fall under the category of "USA is eeevil" it isn't of any interest - much like Bush lied but Chirac, Clinton, and Blix didn't. It isn't rational, it just is. Dex, the president is and will continue to firm the base for the coaltion against terrorism, and there are hints that Canada - like France - is doing much more than people here realize. I understand what you are feeling and saying (and also what you are not saying) because I often feel that way as well, but I was reminded that today is Churchill's birthday which in turn reminded me as to how long it took us to join the previous fight against fascism, so, much like Robert the Bruce who always walked the extra mile to gain an ally, I believe the president intends to persevere and build the coalition with all the patience it requires. It's bigger than us, our feelings and our irritations. It's remembering who the real enemy is, and how easily they can disunite us. After all, Churchill and Roosevelt put up with DeGaulle and Stalin, and Martin is thankfully neither (nor are his purges as drastic.) The speech in Halifax may answer the questions more, because it is rumoured Bush will not only thank Maritimers for their hospitality on Sept 11 but also the efforts of the Navy in the Persian Gulf.

Posted by: Debbye at November 30, 2004 03:14 PM (p0iIK)

5 A person taking pride in being a "veteran" of Usenet "wars" is one of the saddest thing I have ever read. It still doesn't change that the roots of your political beliefs are a psychological nightmare, and you lead an empty life full of plenty of "alone time" to read fantasy novels and watch movies based on Regency era novels (WHERE MEN WERE DASHING GENTLEMEN AND CALVARY OFFICERS). If fact, taking pride in 20 year old flame wars throws more fuel on the sad sad sad fire that is your life. (PS: you didn't answer my questions. But I should have expected this from a neo-con apparachnik. God, I can't wait until Canada is turned into a Chinese Puppet State. The yells of the pit bosses in the Nike Factory will be a refreshing change from the American idiots (and their Canadian Quislings) going on like ranting derelicts and claiming it's "political discourse")

Posted by: Joey at November 30, 2004 06:52 PM (Ojo2r)

6 Best of Joey (1 - 3) “You are either very funny, or very dumb. I going to assume you are very dumb..." "We all know you aren't a vetran. You are much to fat too leave your house" "Have you ever had sex with a human womam?" Most damning indictment of Canadian culture by a Canadian (awarded to '1th' for this assessment of his fellow Canadians): "Joey, I do think you are a good representative of Canadians."

Posted by: mikem at November 30, 2004 07:13 PM (EzNXf)

7 I don't get it - what are the protestors hoping to accomplish? If EVERY Canadian showed up with a sign, it wouldn't change policy here, and it sure wouldn't make us impeach Bush or anything like that. The only thing they're accomplishing is creating a negative image of Canada. Are they hoping to make the Canadian government MORE anti-US and/or anti-Bush? Is that possible?

Posted by: Jay at November 30, 2004 08:38 PM (PuNh2)

8 The people who wrote the U.S. Constitution were familiar with the Parliamentary system, and rejected it. In the American system, the Presidential candidate has to assemble a majority (or at least a plurality) coalition of voters to win the election at all. Whereas in a Parliamentary system, the governing coalition has to be assembled after the elections. You'll forgive me if I think the American system superior.

Posted by: LarryD at November 30, 2004 08:44 PM (5fESB)

9 Too hurt to answer back, EH?

Posted by: Joey at November 30, 2004 08:47 PM (Ojo2r)

10 is joey's 12 yr old school yard drivel the result of canadian psycho health care initiatives? or has his lack of sunlight and excessive time on a shrink's couch what made him spout such nonsense? little joey- loosen your turban you small minded cranial cripple.

Posted by: Pato at November 30, 2004 08:54 PM (zgl98)

11 Jay, demonstrators up here were expected to mobilize against the proposed missile defense shield and "weaponization of space" as well as the usual list of grievances but the numbers have been astonishingly low. It may well be that more Canadians are willing to accept US protection then the polls suggest. You have it rightly, Larry, and another crucial difference is the separation of the executive and legislative branches of government, whereas under a Parliamentary system they are merged (even Cabinet members are elected MPs.) Separation of powers. Checks and balances. A Bill of Rights that restricts the power of Congress to interfere with our inherent rights. What's not to love? Pato, I have accepted that what was a knee-jerk reflex in 2000 has for many become a nervous tic in 2004, but mikem has been administering therapy.

Posted by: Debbye at November 30, 2004 10:40 PM (p0iIK)

12 Oh my god. You people really truly do see the world through dumb-colored glasses. Deb, if you dislike Canada, why not go back to GOD'S COUNTRY? Can you not find work there? It's better than waking up in a cold sweat every night like you do here, screaming "LIBERALS! Oh it was just a dream. I'm still in America. phew." (Then, shaking off the haziness of sleep you look at your kitchen table in the twilight of the early morn. Slowly your eyes adjust. Suddenly, you see a copy of the Toronto Star on the kitchen table. Your eyes dart to your television set: you see Peter Mansbridge on the screen, scribling a swastika on an effigy of George Bush (your beloved) as he prepares to burn it for the morning newscast. You pump your fists into the air, throw your head back and with a wide-eyed cry to heaven scream "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!") Back in God's dumb country, you can go to a red state and be regarded as an "intellectual" as opposed to a lonely idiot like you are here in Canada. I'm sure they'll like you in one of those "MY COUSIN'S MY SISTER" state like Texas or Alabama. God you people are absolutley sickening.

Posted by: Joey at December 01, 2004 12:14 AM (Ojo2r)

13 The above rant was from Joey, who a few posts above complained about "the American idiots (and their Canadian Quislings) going on like ranting derelicts and claiming it's "political discourse" Thank you, Joey. It is always a pleasure to hear from one of Canada's intellectuals.

Posted by: mikem at December 01, 2004 12:34 AM (EzNXf)

14 I HAVE BECOME THE TROTSKY TO MIKEM'S STALIN. You lie awake at night hoping that i post, don't you fatty (deb?)

Posted by: Joey at December 01, 2004 10:51 AM (Ojo2r)

15 Joey, I find it very hard to believe that you have read "The Permanent Revolution." I also find it hard to believe that you have read Lenin's "State and Revolution" and his "Imperialism." I am absolutely certain you haven't read Lenin's "Ultra-Leftism: An Infantile Disorder."

Posted by: Debbye at December 01, 2004 04:39 PM (kKWH4)

16 OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH *SNAP* I bet you have plenty of time to read them WHILE YOU'RE LYING IN BED ALL ALONE ON SATURDAY NIGHT. Tell us all once again how fulfiling your life is?

Posted by: Joey at December 01, 2004 04:57 PM (zeAki)

17 ever wonder why "moonbats" who have limited intellectual capability resort to personal insults? me either

Posted by: val at December 02, 2004 08:48 AM (RxJdz)

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