1 FIGHT DEB FIGHT!!!! FIGHT AGAINST THE UNITED NATIONS FOR EVERLASTING JUSTICE!!!!

2 Many Props to Joey... I just returned to the site out of interest and your return fire against Pato(?) was absolutely brilliant. The funniest thing I've read in a long time, I'm telling you. To MikeM, referring to your constant insinuations that you hate all Canadians because they are like Joey... You. Are. An. Idiot... Do you really think people like Joey and I are a true representation of Canadians? Yeah, right.... Nor do we think you and Debbye are a true representation of Americans... WE, Joey and myself, are here specifically because YOU ARE NOT AVERAGE Americans, you represent the lowest of the low, the jingoistic, arrogant, and ignorant "traditionalists" and general nut jobs that we hear so much about. WE GET A KICK OUT OF READING YOUR RANTS, and the fact that you can spin anything anti-American into a conspiracy against you.... AHHH, UNSCAM!!!! AHHH, ADSCAM!!!!... AHHH, A WOMAN!!!!!.... Alas, BOTH groups are here because we are not normal. Us, because we have a politically-conscious sense of humour and a keen eye for the eccentricities of American politics... YOU, because you need somewhere to vent on your Conspiracy theories, and if Joey is right, to find friends because your fatness make it too hard in the real world... Anyways, I really have to get work done, and I shouldn't be posting here at all, but it's just too damn fun to pass up. Keep on Truckin... and PLEASE respond by saying that this is what you would expect from the "left" these days, projecting your paranoid delusions of conspiracy upon me for disagreeing with you.

3 Yes, Debbye, it is curious. I believe he said he wanted to spend more time with his wife or something like that, but given that he's only been there six months - presumably he knew that long ago that he loved spending time with his wife - I'd say something else is likely going on. Maybe it's illness related, or it could be something else entirely.

4 WTF 1th? You are simply making stuff up. It almost appears as if you cut and pasted your rant from a response you made on another website to a different post. I don't even use the word conspiracy. In fact, it is Democrats (in America) that have the most "conspiracy awareness", e.g. neocon, Likudnik, Jewish, fascist, etc. All I have done is point out that Americans view most of the counterintuitive protests against American, British and Australian action to promote freedom and democracy in previously totalitarian Iraq as a shield against, in your case, Canada's guilt and shame in siding with dictatorships and anti-Israeli terrorists as well as the Jew haters on Canadian campuses. I have never mentioned conspiracy or hinted at some organized effort. I ascribe most of the reversal of the traditional Canadian defense of freedom and democracy to a general degradation of the Canadian character. And I don't think for a minute that you represent all Canadians in your views, just the majority. By the way, I respect the sacrifice you have made in pointing out that we should not measure Canadian culture by a lack of it on the part of a couple of guys who post here. It takes humility and self awareness to make such a protest and it says much about your love for your country. I respect that.

5 Since Mikem has wanted me to give him a rational response, here goes: I see the (obvious) troll bait here("in your case, Canada's guilt and shame in siding with dictatorships"- you want someone to go "BLAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGG!!! THE US SUPPORTED IRAQ UNDER SADDAM AND PINOCHET AND AND AND...*") and then sidetrack the conversation. This will not work. In fact, I cite it here as an example of further pig-fuckery on your part. Secondly, nationalism to me is nothing more than a scion thrown to feeble-minded people by people who want you to a)vote for them, b)pay taxes to them or c) die for them. It's ridiculious to argue that one "nation" is superior to another. The US has a cooler flag and bigger GDP. Hoopdedamndo. In fact, everytime one of you rallies around the flag i just see someone desperately trying to fill a void in their life. Debbye, we all know that you cling to the US as a feeble means of validating your existence and to combat your isolation in Canada by claiming the "otherness" of Canadians and Americans, and the alleged incombatibilty that springs from that. MikeM, the great "patriot", to you your country is nothing more that a version of "MY DAD'S COOLER THAN YOUR DAD" in the global scale. Anyone who clings to the myths of a landmass and the achievments of others who happened to be born in the same borders as him as validation of his superority and greatness is (to misquote Eliot) a hollow man. You are nothing but sticks and air, propped up by a misguided sense of pride ideas and superority. Any poke to the "pile" that is you and you could very well come tumbling down. *This is the longest footnote in history. There are lots of examples of America actually supporting regimes that would be defined today as "terrorist" or "rogue" state, but its far too gay to get into them. You American wing nuts can't seem to grasp the fact that America sold its soul to "win" the cold war. "Freedom and Democracy" in Bush's context are just meaningless phrases used to cover up "PURSUIT OF NATIONAL INTERESTS". Yes, yes, freedom and democracy are American interests blah blah blah. You know deep in your heart that it's a lie. And no, this isn't a "conspiracy theory". It's contempory realism. To say different would be to go against hundreds of years of theory. It just goes to show how stupid you and your kind really are, to not see how the States is actively engaging in solidifying regional hegemony and protection for Israel as well as using the Iraqi war to slow down European Unification and develop a form of economic leverage over the EU and ECC. Why? BECAUSE IT'S IN THEIR NATIONAL INTERESTS. This is one of the reasons why you bloggers and rightwing nut bars are told to hate France so much- because they are one of the few countries that pursues their intrests as agressively as the United States (which bothers the US because even a single pinprick, no matter how infantesimal it really is, in the big balloon that is American hegemony bothers policy makers immensely) If you and your "intellectual" peers dared to transgress against the holy writ of Bill O'Riley for a single second and picked up the "Jew" York Times within the last month or so, you would see an article by Condolezza Rice that re-affirms realism and condems intervention (ie what the White House Talking Points refer to as war IN THE NAME OF FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY). God you people are dense. You'd be alot easier to deal with if you just came out and said you wanted to kill everyone and take their stuff in the name of national intrests. At least then you couldn't hide behind the "GOO GOO GAH GAH FREEDOM" shield then. You know what? I'd bet most people wouldn't mind if you did. Can I ask you or Debbye to give me a single opinion that isn't fed to you by FOX, a right wing blog or AM Radio? No? What a suprise. Pig Fucker.

6 1) "you cut and pasted your rant from a response you made on another website to a different post" No, I can assure you, on the grave of thousands of American and Iraqi's, that I wrote this post specifically for you and Debbie. Be proud, my friend. I really don't have enough time to do this every day on hundreds of different blogs. 2) "Canada's guilt and shame in siding with dictatorships and anti-Israeli terrorists" I'm not sticking up for Saddam... I've said this before... I'm simply defending the underdogs who are getting killed in the thousands... Criticism of the United States does not equal love for terrorists... (In fact, if I were on one of those planes, I would have at least tried to kick the shit out of those Egytians and Saudi Arabians who hijacked them... I would have taken action into my own hands... I wouldn't have said, TAKE ME SADDAM, FOR YOU ARE MY LEADER!) Oh, and not only sticking up for the underdogs, I'm also sticking up for historical context. Unlike you, I am wiling to look at the history of the situation in the middle east. For instance, Iraq was a U.S. ally until only months before the first Gulf War... Hmm, that's a thinker, isn't it?... Again, not criticizing, just being factually accurate. 3) What's up with the boner for Australia?... YOU FORGOT ABOUT POLAND AGAIN!!! HAVE SOME RESPECT FOR YOUR ALLIES. (Even the ones who don't speak the language of Jesus) 4) "don't think for a minute that you represent all Canadians in your views, just the majority" You are right... The fact that you threw in "majority" is interesting though... The current line out of Fox News circles is to claim that Canadians really support Bush, but that the politicians and media just have us believing otherwise. (Read John Gibson's recent comments on the Fox News website for instance... This will be a continual Republican talking refrain, I'm sure, just like the "Liberal Media bias" myth which began about 10 years ago and has been accepted.) 5) Your last paragraph, I honestly can't decipher. I assume it's a backhanded complement, but I can't comment without clarification first.

7 “I'm simply defending the underdogs who are getting killed in the thousands... Criticism of the United States does not equal love for terrorists...” You say this, calling the Saddam loyalists and the foreign anti-democratic recruits from other dictatorship nations, underdogs. And you are offended and feel unjustly characterized? Is it only about numbers for you? (I assume not.) By your own statement, you are sympathizing with the anti-democratic forces! Do you not think that the majority of Iraqis want freedom and democracy and not a, at best, theocratic dictatorship? “Criticism of the United States does not equal love for terrorists...” No shit! What is the point? And you are really taking up, in a different sense, my own argument against the Democrats this campaign. Any questioning of their weak security policies was answered, not with a counterpoint, but with a “How dare you question my patriotism?!?”, even though no one had done so. And a lot of indignant noises from the media about how criticism of Democratic Bush/Hitler type organizations was not criticism but actually suppression of free speech. (“chilling effect”) “What's up with the boner for Australia?... YOU FORGOT ABOUT POLAND AGAIN!!!” You had just gone on about historical concept and you do not understand why I repeatedly cited Britain and Australia to a Canadian? Are you not aware that Canada has a not too distant historical association with these countries? Didn't I receive, as change, currency with an image of Queen Elizabeth years ago when I visited Canada? The point, again, is that Canada has historically stood with these countries through all, especially efforts to promote freedom and democracy. Now it does not. Not only that, people like like you and Joey (I guess) and many Canadians are openly siding with anti-democratic forces. Staying out of the fight is one thing, although not the stuff that your future historians will brag about. Calling terrorists and thugs 'the underdogs” reveals something else entirely. “Your last paragraph, I honestly can't decipher.” It refers to your “Do you really think people like Joey and I are a true representation of Canadians? Yeah, right....” “(In fact, if I were on one of those planes, I would have at least tried to kick the shit out of those Egytians and Saudi Arabians who hijacked them... I would have taken action into my own hands... I wouldn't have said, TAKE ME SADDAM, FOR YOU ARE MY LEADER!)” Real class, 1th! And if you had, you would have been the first Canadian to ever do so. Before 9/11 commercial airline passengers were specifically told not to interfere with hijackers. That the vast majority of hijackings were safely resolved as long as passengers didn't try to be heroes. And in fact, once the passengers on the fourth plane received word through cell phone calls that the planes were being used as missiles to kill others, they bravely stormed the cockpit and prevented another WTC. But you know all this, don't you. You just wanted to rub the death of Americans in our faces. Very Canadian of you. You are beneath contempt and I am pleased that you have mocked your own insistence that you are just criticizing the US.

8 No, I don't think the majority of Iraqis want "freedom and democracy," because they haven't a fucking clue what the hell you're talking about. They don't listen to Sean Hannity over there. All they know is that Americans are bombing the fuck out of them... That's what they'll continue to think for quite some time in most cases... Just like Vietnam. .... hey, hey, wait a fuckin minute? Why am I responding to you on a weblog... Why the hell are you even on a weblog? If you feel so strongly about bringing freedom and democracy (of the Sean Hannity variety) to Iraq, WHY AREN'T YOU OVER THERE FIGHTING FOR IT!!!!! I don't wanna hear any "I didn't pass the physical," or "I've already served ten tours"... I WANNA KNOW WHY YOU ARENT FIGHTING FOR THE RED WHITE AND BLIZZUE!!!!!!

9 SO Mikem. Are you going to respond to my post, or should I go back to calling you fat and dumb? Because I'm rarin' to go! Also: Beautiful response to 1th. all the things you said about freedom, democracy and fighting terror. MAGNIFICIENT!!! Hey, remember how I asked you to provide an "opinion" that isn't spoonfed to you by FOX, AM radio or right wing blogs? Turns out that you can't! KEEP ON TRUCKIN'!

10 No, Joey. I was just catching my breath after reading your incredibly hateful, but pureblood Canadian reference to the New York Times as the "Jew York Times". I guess we will hear some protest soon from 1th about how Canadians, like him and Joey, are not actually ignorantly anti-semitic, just critical of Israel. You 'tolerant' Canadians don't deserve to have a voice among civilized nations. What a joke you have made of yourselves.

11 Hey Mikem. I managed to gain access to your "super secret" notebooks. I should warn you that in the future, hiding your workbooks deep inside a locked 19th century steamer chest in your attic that is buried under boxes of old clothes and well thumbed copies of "National Gerographic" is far from "super secret". Be more creative in the future. Also, make sure you don't write "SUPER SECRET JOURNALS- MY EYES ONLY! STAY AWAY!!!!!!!" in crayon on the covers of them. Anyways, your journals had all the usual stuff that all poorly adjusted and obese shut-ins write about. A small sampling of your copious output includes: - An enemies list (A small sample of your eternal enemies: 1. JOCKS 2. GAP GIRLS 3. Stacy Lewis from my high school math class who called meyou a 'pitiful waste of flesh that smells like dogfood, wears 'child molester' glasses and just made me vomit in my mouth') - Crude drawings of you shirtless standing atop a pile of (which the arrow and caption indicated were "DEAD IRANIANS! U.S.A! U.S.A!" and waving an American flag - A series of poems detailing your hatred of canada and "liberals" (one gem was entitled "Abortionists Contortionists Canada's your home!!" and consisted of roughly 600 lines of childish couplets) - Various poorly written manuscripts and short stories (that practically reeked of OBVIOUS self-insertion) in which an "obese and shy but rugged and ruthless shut-in"(you?) leads "The American Faction" to EXTREMELY bloody military victories in the ruins of "the once great and glorious American cities" of a post-nuclear war wasteland over the sinster designs and evil cackling armies of Communists, Liberals, Humanists and a large group of terribly mutated and violently psychotic former East-Coasters you refer to as "DEMONcrats". Intrestingly, these short stories and novels had your morbidly obese "warrior" lead managed to seduce and "bed" (in your own words) a post-apocalyptic Amazonness who owns a large gun that is "hard and fast like...her love" named "Lewis Stacy". (Could this be a thinly veiled reference to the Stacy Lewis from high school who said you smelled like dog food?) Anyways, all this was well and good (me and the boys in the publishing firm I work for had a jolly good laugh). But the most intresting discovery I made was the erotic "slash" fiction you wrote about a cruel Muslim sultan and his "young American slave boy". I am assuming that this "young man" is none other than yourself. I must say that even though I am an avid readier of M. DeSade and Dr. Sader, this tale was one of the most vile and repulsive I have ever read. The detailed descriptions you provide of the "swarthy sultan" preforming extreme and depraved homosexual acts on the charcter named "TOTALLYNOT MIKEM" sickened and repulsed those of us in my group who had the misfortune of reading this "story" But I will give you one thing Mike: you description of literally hundreds of homosexual sexual positions and acts that the Sultan preformed on his slave-boy was quite remarkable. Not good, tasteful, or worthy of being published and unleashed on any sane person, gay or straight, but "remarkable" nonetheless. I must admit that I was taken aback, as I assumed that you would be writing erotic slash about your close personal friend "Sus domesticus"(I'll save you the trouble off googling it and tell you it means "pig"). Good luck with Book II of what you have called "A Young Man's Sensual Arabian Nights: A Trilogy in Four Erotic Parts". But maybe you might want to tone it down a little bit.

12 hahaha, good work Joey. I believe we have truly won the debate when all mikem can come up with is "You hate Jews and you're not civilized" and "If you're critical of Israel, you must hate all Jews." What a fucking idiot... I didn't know people as warped as mikem even existed. He's incapable of challenging any of my points without assuming I'm evil. Oh, and I think it's great the he once again misread your use of the "Jew York Times" remark.... THATS WHAT PEOPLE LIKE YOU CALL IT, MIKEM! He's mocking you. Jesus Christ, can't you figure it out. You call the New York Times liberal... Get it? So you call it "Jew York Times"? This is straight off ultra-conservative websites. Anyways... 1th out. Sleep tight, mikem, in the arms of a Muslim Sultan apparently.

13 Joey's Hilarious/Sarcastic discussion vs. mikem's "civilized" discussion vs. 1th's Intelligent/Well-Reasoned/Historically Accurate discussion .... I WIN!!!!!!

14 Oh, I see now. So, when Joey or you make anti-semitic comments, you are just being sarcastic? What a surprising attempt to dig yourself out of a hole. I will say that I am pleased that you have felt shamed enough by Joey's comment to reach for such a lame explanation. "I WIN!!!!!!" Does this mean that you are claiming "touche"? Bwahahaha

15 For anyone not familiar with 1th's postings here, my 'touche' comment is in reference to this from an earlier exchange with him: And finally, 1th has made an attempt at replacing the Best of Joey feature with this parting gem: 1th: “Touche. (That's french for I WIN)” No, it is french for “you win”, Einstein! Thank You! As any good french worshiping Canadian should know, 'touche' is an acknowledgment of an opponents successful “touch” in a fencing duel, or more commonly to acknowledge an opponents successful point in a debate. It is used to grudgingly, but with style, admit defeat or a loss of point. This little “joey” is especially rich following your lecture on my “racist” failure to footnote foreign origin words. But again, thanks.

16 I forgot. Maybe you were just being sarcastic.

17 MIKEM & 1th: Before you two post 15 more posts talking to yourselves, I forgot to mention how your erotic novel goes on in great detail on how the the Sultan is circumsized much like "the Jewish people" and how mighty and strong he appears to be (below the waist). As Book I of your trilogy states, the Sultan tells you (while toweling off) that there is a common thread between all the semetic faiths- they are all linked closely and are one and the same. Therefore: If all three faiths are the same, Show him how much you love the Jewish people. Take him on- every firm inch. He beckons to you... Go. Sleep well in his arms tonight. PS: All kidding about pigfuckery and the Sultan's forbidden love aside, people who use words like "Bwahahaha" non-ironically on the internet are in fact sad fat virgins. Seriously. I see you for what you really are: VERY FAT. Will you be threatening my "dusty beard" (whatever that is) later on as well? PPS: It took you roughly 9 minutes to come up with those 3 "witty" rejoiners? Wow. No wonder you're not responding to my posts. They must be at a considerably higher reading level than what you are used to. Sad. Guess they didn't teach you to read and write "too good" while you were in the (imaginary)Army.

18 Additionally(At the risk of talking to myself): Nice work on the trolling- you managed to avoid answering 1th's question. But why aren't you fighting in Iraq if you feel so strongly? They need troops badly (as per the requests of regional commanders over the weekend) Don't try to weasel out of it by saying "I was just trolling all along LOL" or something typically AM-Radioish like "SO I CAN FIGHT EVIL LIBERALS LIKE YOU OVER HERE" or go on about this speeling error. Go fight. Die for your country.

19 ahahah, I was kidding you idiot... I said "Touche" means "I win" in order to mock you and your hatred of France. I win again apparently.

20 Of course!

21 Too scared or embarrased to answer the questions I asked you? We all know the answer. You are too much of a coward to do anything. Like all of the other American war porn addicts, you're a small man with a big mouth. But you have no trouble calling for others to go in your place, as long as you can watch the (sanitized) images on TV. I thought you were just "sickening" before, due to your obesity. Now I'm utterly repulsed. I'll give you a chance to be a man and come clean once again. TO QUOTE ME: "But why aren't you fighting in Iraq if you feel so strongly? They need troops badly (as per the requests of regional commanders over the weekend) Don't try to weasel out of it by saying "I was just trolling all along LOL" or something typically AM-Radioish like "SO I CAN FIGHT EVIL LIBERALS LIKE YOU OVER HERE" or go on about this speeling error. Go fight. Die for your country." Will you mikem? Put your beliefs where your mouth is (instead of fistfuls of cheetoes like you usually do). You Coward.

22 Hey, where's Dubbya? She usually interjects with her banal yet useless commentary on how fierce an American she is. I know Dubbya. She's the vacuous motormouth I saw the other day at Gingly's. Bitching at the counterperson for not being perfect. I thought to myself "..American harridan". I wasn't wrong. No matter how much Americans talk about how great America is, one thing is clear...they certainly ain't happy campers, and haven't been for as long as I can remember. And that says a lot, especially about the most perfectest, beautifulest, not at all fatest people on Earth.

23 Dubbya and "mikem" seem to be too occupied to post lately. For fun, lets assume they are different people. My guess is that a semi full of Doritios overturned on I-95, spilling cases of those precious, precious bits of snack food gold across the asphalt and into the empty passenger seat of Mikem's 1988 Chevette(he was making a rare trip outside to buy a new Gross of Mountain Dew: Code Red from the nearest Sam's Club). Needless to say, MikeM is far to busy greedily jamming free fistfuls of "Cool Ranch" and "BOLD BBQ" in his mitts and shoveling them into his gaping maw, already stained red and yellow with the dust of chips that have gone to a far far better place in the sybaritic orgy of gluttony that is know as "American consumerism". He is far too busy gorging himself to talk to a group of Socalist Canadians who hate war. I think that Deb is still too busy basking in the glory of 20 year old flame wars and the warm glow of Jane Austen novels to fire up the ol' browser and rail about the Islamic Commie-Nazis running the United Nations. I know! Maybe she's been preoccupied with Christmas shopping! I bet she bought her (many) cats presents! And on Christmas morning she'll sneak downstairs all by herself and tie cat sized policeman hats onto their heads! I can practically hear her saying things like "OH Miss Mittens! You are only thing protecting me from the terrorists who call this "country" (I imagine her making the "quotation marks" in the air with her fingers) known as Canada home!"

1 I don't want a mudfest either, but perhaps some advice would be helpful on how we can ensure Marc Rich's pardon wasn't 'bought' if the investigation isn't allowed to "go there"?

2 It is all well and good to say let's not go overboard on something, but the Clintons already received a pass of sorts on the Marc Rich pardon since he was leaving office at the time. Otherwise, there certainly would have been a thorough investigation. Both Democrats and Republicans were outraged by the timing of the pardon and the obvious implications of over a million dollars in donations to the Democratic Party and Clinton Library by the Rich family preceding the pardon. Remember, Rich had been charged with stealing over $50 million from American taxpayers and fled to Switzerland to avoid prosecution. I'll grant that Clinton has no connection with the Iraqi Oil for Food scandal, but one doesn't need to be a scandal monger to have the memory of the Rich pardon refreshed or to make assumptions about how deserved Rich was of such a generous Get Out of Jail Free card. (Well, not exactly free.) Maybe he had to replace money spent for Clinton donations, giving the timing. Additionally, Hillary is an obvious candidate for '08, as well as a US Senator, so the pardon is not water under the bridge that we need not revisit.

3 It's going to be awkward, for sure, and Hillary's potential as a candidate in '08 will heighten the rhetoric (although the Rich scandal could derail that because, as you've both pointed out, these latest allegations already bring the Clinton name back into the mix.) But the level of the rhetoric can either be vicious or factual, and all I'm asking is for focus on facts.

4 Finally! Something about the Oil-for-food Scam that the European press can latch onto.... there was an AMERICAN involved! Ha! Ha! Never mind the french banker behind the curtain!

5 Yeah, I voted for you too. In fact two days in a row, which is allowed. However, at Daily Kos they printed a spambot script that his readers used to hijack the contest. So it looks like all the effort Wizbang put into an inclusive contest will be for naught. The Kos Kollective are quite pleased with themselves. All this while they are still whining about the 'stolen' election. I guess this election was about values in more ways than one.

6 What? This little mud puddle of a blog was nominated for something? Geez, Dubbya, 20 years from now, you'll be so embarassed! ...like David Duke cringing when he sees photos of himself in a white hood.

7 DEAR CANOLE: I would like to be having your manbabies now.